The vast majority of postmodernists have no idea what post modernism is, or that they are believers in it.
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I would agree with this, but I think bundling all of those bits under the label "Marxist", as
@jordanbpeterson does, is intellectually dishonest. People have internalized these concepts without understanding the source--that doesn't make them "marxists" or "poststructuralists" -
Well, I am certainly not calling postmodernism 'Marxism,' and argue against this frequently. Marxists still exist but they're not terribly keen on postmodernism or its offshoots. The high deconstructive phase ended to be replaced by activism-scholarship.
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I appreciate & agree with that distinction but based on the ideology of many from the deconstructive phase, it is quite common for people, especially those associated with the dark internet, or whatever they call themselves, to conflate Marxism, radical "leftism" & postmodernism
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It's difficult to do that based on the ideology of those from the deconstructive phase. The primary metanarratives targetted by the postmodernists were Christianity, science and Marxism. Foucault was particularly anti-soviet and Derrida took it apart utterly.
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Thank you for the exchange, I appreciate your comments!
@jordanbpeterson consistently conflates postmodernism and poststructuralism with Marxism and "extreme leftism" It is the foundation of his whole schtick in my interpretation of the podcasts I have heard him on. -
:) Yes, I disagree with him very strongly about that and wish he wouldn't. It makes it much harder to address the problem.
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Further, what u are describing is Gramscian hegemony--the internalization of ideology without being able to understand its source. Do we really thing that the "left" is now on the level of "liberal economic orthodoxy" in terms of hegemonic influence? Is this not overstating a bit
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Huh? Who is stating anything like this? I'm only stating what I am stating.
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It follows logically from the first post: if postmodernists don't know they are postmodernists, as asserted in the first tweet and defended by you, then they have been so absorbed into this belief system that they dont know where it started or how they got there.
#gramsci -
This is commonly accepted. Few westerners realise how much influence Augustine had on western ways of thinking. They can uphold those ideas even if they have never heard of him. This was being recognised long before Gramsci. Do you know where all your ideas came from?
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I feel like postmodernist arguments are relatively distinctive (words have power, knowledge and social position are intersubjective constructs etc) and only 70 years old, which is different than Augustine. People using these arguments should know their origin IMO
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They often don't for reasons I gave in the essay I linked. The ideas have evolved and also been condensed and made user friendly and tagged onto positive movements like the Civil Right's Movement, Gay Pride and 2nd Wave Liberal Feminism. This obscures their origins.
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If this is true, then it is a chicken & egg problem. Its not that PM originated w/leftist thinkers, but leftist movements have been the ones to activate these ideas. In this sense, Peterson might be "right" but he has the causl arrow backwards
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It's both.
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