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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 15

    Helen Pluckrose Retweeted ∴ Nathan Jacobson

    Postmodernism: Objective truth is unattainable. Knowledge is always situated. Religion: Objective truth is found in my religion & accepted via faith, Science: Objective truth is attainable in principle & attaining it is the aim but it is always provisional & open to correction.https://twitter.com/afterall_net/status/985533728381259776 …

    Helen Pluckrose added,

    ∴ Nathan Jacobson @afterall_net
    Replying to @HPluckrose
    The religious and the scientistic share common ground in defending objective truths and the possibility of knowledge against postmodernism. How great that this common ground leads to exchanges about other points of difference. That’s the way it’s supposed to work.
    9:12 AM - 15 Apr 2018
    • 36 Retweets
    • 113 Likes
    • Peter Ford Ian Chris Wright A Mighty Wyn ∞ BeeKeeper Mathlev Raxenblatz Tristan Naramore Positive Sam matt nall
    13 replies 36 retweets 113 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Adam Kolasinski‏ @adamckolasinski Apr 15
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I would add, however, that the scientific method can only discover material truth. It is incapable of discovering moral truth or metaphysical truth.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 15
        Replying to @adamckolasinski

        We have to work out moral values ourselves. Metaphysical truth may be meaningless.

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Adam Kolasinski‏ @adamckolasinski Apr 15
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Also, unless you are willing to embrace complete moral reletavism, you must accept that there are some universal moral truths.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 15
        Replying to @adamckolasinski

        No, I don't. I have access to only a tiny part of the universe. There is almost certainly an optimal morality for human thriving and wellbeing based on consistent needs we have. No reason to think this holds up outside us. Our evolved to very specific environmental pressures.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Adam Kolasinski‏ @adamckolasinski Apr 15
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        How do you decide that your idea of thriving and well-being is the correct one?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 15
        Replying to @adamckolasinski

        Evidence of what helps humans survive. Honestly, I have no interest in having this conversation for the billionth time. You can either search & read previous conversations or just accept I go largely with Sam Harris' argument on this.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. Adam Kolasinski‏ @adamckolasinski Apr 15
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Ill just point out that there's more to thriving & wellbeing than mere survival and leave it at that. We can agree to disagree if you're not up for this discussion.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 15
        Replying to @adamckolasinski

        Thriving. We'll be arguing about the best way to do that forever but it is basically rooted in basic common human needs. After that, for liberal humanists, there is freedom to do one's own thing as long as it harms no-one else.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      10. 5 more replies
      1. New conversation
      2. Ieshua Kynnyd‏ @OrigenOfSpices Apr 15
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        In religion, understanding of truth must be open to correction, even as some things are accepted by faith. Unless one is convinced of ones own power of understanding, which is pride.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 15
        Replying to @OrigenOfSpices

        But the truth claims of the faith are not. There is no chance that Christians are going to correct their core beliefs. They'll just correct other members who they think diverge from the correct meaning.

        3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      4. Richard Heathfield  🇬🇧‏ @rjheathfield Apr 15
        Replying to @HPluckrose @OrigenOfSpices

        Which core beliefs did you have in mind?

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 15
        Replying to @rjheathfield @OrigenOfSpices

        They're not looking for disconfirming evidence that God exists, that he had a son etc. Might squabble over interpretation of minutiae. But i am not interested in arguing about existence of God. I did that for too long. So over it. Boring and unproductive.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Richard Heathfield  🇬🇧‏ @rjheathfield Apr 15
        Replying to @HPluckrose @OrigenOfSpices

        God is unfalsifiable and thus inherently unscientific. There is no percentage in arguing about God's existence. There is therefore no "correcting" to be done.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 15
        Replying to @rjheathfield @OrigenOfSpices

        That's how I feel, yes. Until there is evidence and some way to make him or any other mythic intangible thing falsifiable, there is no reason to consider it a serious proposition. It can't be claimed to exist. It's boring to argue about.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. Richard Heathfield  🇬🇧‏ @rjheathfield May 30
        Replying to @HPluckrose @OrigenOfSpices

        Sorry for the delayed reply. I've been in Twitter's bad books. Uh, something can be a serious proposition without being scientific.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      9. 1 more reply
      1. New conversation
      2. Mikel Kritzinger‏ @MikelKritzinger Apr 15
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I am a Christian, but I don't see myself as having all the answers, and am open to correction ...science is not always humble...

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 15
        Replying to @MikelKritzinger

        Science is a method and the most self-doubtful one we have. It works on falsification and replication and rewards people for disproving others. Even then, knowledge is always provisional. Scientists might not always be humble tho.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Mikel Kritzinger‏ @MikelKritzinger Apr 16
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Jacques Ellul wrote that reality is often confused with truth. I think that science seeks to understand (material?) reality. Not sure if truth, (goodness, beauty, human condition) is of the same order.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. Jeff Alberda‏ @JeffAlberda Apr 15
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I'd say that your view on Religion is one that considers the near worst of the religious and your view on science is one that might consider only the ideal not the reality, eso conscerning entrenched theories.

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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