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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 15

    Helen Pluckrose Retweeted Sᴛᴇᴠᴇɴ Wɪʟʟɪᴀᴍꜱᴏɴ

    Being an atheist absolutely does not rule out being gullible & easily misled. This is shown by the number of atheists who take on irrational & unevidenced beliefs on the far-left, far-right, spiritual, postmodern, pseudoscientific & Jungian-archetype-mixed-with-bible-stories.https://twitter.com/scarce_sense/status/985448699084992518 …

    Helen Pluckrose added,

    Sᴛᴇᴠᴇɴ Wɪʟʟɪᴀᴍꜱᴏɴ @scarce_sense
    Replying to @scarce_sense @HPluckrose
    Being an atheist should, you would hope, rule out the former leaving us with the reason for his feminist activism.
    2:42 AM - 15 Apr 2018
    • 27 Retweets
    • 139 Likes
    • Evander Peter Ford Sceptical Canuck Patrick Vermeren Perspicacious Ægis Spooky Prince Vegeta🎃 Hani Darwich Michael Nketsiah Realist Left
    15 replies 27 retweets 139 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Darryl Richard‏ @darrylrichard23 Apr 15
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Lol. I like my Jungian archetypes. I mean, the original Star Wars trilogy was amazing. But some people seem to have a need for what I'll charitably call deeper meaning in their lives. Simple dismissal of religious or dogmatic thought may not be the wisest thing. Maybe.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Darryl Richard‏ @darrylrichard23 Apr 15
        Replying to @darrylrichard23 @HPluckrose

        For me, Peterson advocates for personal responsibility. That message is so important, if he wants to tell Bible stories while presenting it, well so be it.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Virgil‏ @VirgilMSW Apr 15
        Replying to @darrylrichard23 @HPluckrose

        I mean the Bible just seems like a story. And a story seems to be most simple way to transmit information to large groups of people. This story seems packed with moral and ethical guidance, depending on interpretation. Remain skeptical but to say there is no value seems wrong.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 15
        Replying to @VirgilMSW @darrylrichard23

        We don't have to say that something has no value to say that it is not rational & evidence-based. Peterson says this explicitly. He calls it the affective (feelings) truth of the mythic world (narratives).

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Virgil‏ @VirgilMSW Apr 15
        Replying to @HPluckrose @darrylrichard23

        I think my contention is the implication of saying something is irrational and lacks evidence. Usually it is implied there is no value and/or it is false. Or even that hyper rationality is preferable, which i am starting to disagree with.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 15
        Replying to @VirgilMSW @darrylrichard23

        There can be lots of value in feelings and stories. That's why I devoted my academic career to studying the Christian narrative and the meaning it had for women historically. It's just different to truth established by evidence & reason & the problem arises when this is denied.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. Virgil‏ @VirgilMSW Apr 15
        Replying to @HPluckrose @darrylrichard23

        I think you put it better in that tweet. It is a different truth and different evidence. Those words are just so loaded, saying something irrational is almost always an insult. But you are %100 right it is not the same.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 15
        Replying to @VirgilMSW @darrylrichard23

        No, it's not truth and there is no evidence. Emotionally resonant narratives are important to us and they are how we consistently think about morality and psychology and emotion and relationships. But they are not true. Bible stories are not true. Jungian archetypes are not true.

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      10. 4 more replies
      1. New conversation
      2. Phil McCutchen‏ @PastorPhilBCC Apr 15
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I think ur, not so subtle swipe at Jordan Peterson is a mistake. The archetypes provide moral structure without requiring literal belief in a personal God.

        1 reply 2 retweets 8 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 15
        Replying to @PastorPhilBCC

        Yes, I know but I'm not claiming it doesn't do that. I'm claiming it is not rational and evidence-based, as does he. He calls it the affective reality of the mythic world -feelings produced by stories.

        2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      4. Phil McCutchen‏ @PastorPhilBCC Apr 15
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Yes but radical PoMo feminist ideas are destructive in that as JBP would say, “they deconstruct the nature of being.” Why make positive ideas equivalent with horrible ideas? Provable or not. Sorry if I’m missing you.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 15
        Replying to @PastorPhilBCC

        I'm not making the ideas equivalent. I'm saying the same epistemology about truth being constructed by narratives is used by pomo and Peterson. I didn't make either of them do that. I just observe that they do.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. T‏ @Abrahams_Terror Apr 15
        Replying to @HPluckrose @PastorPhilBCC

        Do you think truth can not be expressed in story?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 15
        Replying to @Abrahams_Terror @PastorPhilBCC

        Truth and falsity can be conveyed in a narrative. It's important to establish which they are if you can. If you can't, don't claim them to be true. Just say they have meaning for you if they do.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Jay Baldwin‏ @Jay_Baldwin Apr 15
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        This may even suggest that not all atheist disbelief is rooted in skepticism and a demand for good reasons for their beliefs. Instead, maybe "atheist" is just a contrarian identity,.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 15
        Replying to @Jay_Baldwin

        Of course, it's not. Most of the atheists I know in England are atheists because they've never been raised with any religion and never thought of taking one up. Only a small minority are sceptics. It could be contrarian if you are surrounded by religious people, I suppose.

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Stephen Knight‏ @GSpellchecker Apr 15
        Replying to @HPluckrose @SecularBloke

        This is so true. There's a huge difference between an atheist and a sceptic it seems

        2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
      3. Chris Baker‏ @Zacnaloen Apr 15
        Replying to @GSpellchecker @HPluckrose @SecularBloke

        sadly not, at some point Sceptics became just as tribal and prone to bullshit as all the other groups. There's no where in the English language left for the truly independant minded. Unless we reclaim some word they've moved beyond. Natural Philosopher is going free..?

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 15
        Replying to @Zacnaloen @GSpellchecker @SecularBloke

        I hope all the #ListenAndBelieveButOnlyToPeopleWhoAgreeWithUs 'sceptics' will abandon the label in the same way the SocJus loons have begun to move away from the word 'liberal.'

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      5. Chris Baker‏ @Zacnaloen Apr 15
        Replying to @HPluckrose @GSpellchecker @SecularBloke

        Them moving away from Liberal since last year has made me really happy. Because it means I get say I'm a Liberal. Instead of having to preface it with not quite perfect adjectives.

        0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      6. End of conversation

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