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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 13

    Helen Pluckrose Retweeted Richard Morgan

    I get this argument and support reasonable feminists who want to reclaim the term. However, I think, in non-patriarchal societies where legal equality has been achieved & where both men & women experience privileges & disadvantages, gender equality should be postfeminist.https://twitter.com/quellist1/status/984823095306473473 …

    Helen Pluckrose added,

    Richard Morgan @quellist1
    Replying to @HPluckrose
    My problem with this is that it's defeatist - in essence, you abandon the term to those who have weaponised it. And that's not a battle I want to lose, it's too important.
    9:11 AM - 13 Apr 2018
    • 5 Retweets
    • 42 Likes
    • Soldado Desconocido Knowledge Seeker Daniel TonyF 🇬🇧 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 A Mighty Wyn Rebecca D Tina Russell 🏛 Ἱερόδουλη Ἀφροδίτης Nicola Wright Gedankenschild
    7 replies 5 retweets 42 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Richard Morgan‏ @quellist1 Apr 14
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        But with the - possible -exception of some Scandinavian countries, I’ve yet to see a society that could convincingly be described as non-patriarchal - and even if we do end up at that place, I think the danger of rollback is a constant headache. You need a rallying point.

        1 reply 1 retweet 6 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 14
        Replying to @quellist1

        https://areomagazine.com/2017/07/10/how-to-tell-if-youre-living-in-a-patriarchy-a-historical-perspective/ …

        4 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      4. Richard Morgan‏ @quellist1 Apr 14
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        However far we come, I suspect we will always be fighting the battle for gender equity just as we will always be fighting the battle against xenophobia, because I think both these things are hardwired in. It is very early in the game to be singing post-feminist victory /end

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 14
        Replying to @quellist1

        I think we'll always be trying to work gender equality out. I think we're past the point where we need to focus on it from women's perspective

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Richard Morgan‏ @quellist1 Apr 14
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I don't think we *ever* needed to focus on it exclusively from women's perspective; IMHO, Feminism is and always has been (and should be) an issue of inclusivity. Reason why I don't want to surrender the term to divisive lunatics.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 14
        Replying to @quellist1

        I think it would do better to come at gender equality from a perspective which does not prioritise one gender, whether it's feminism or the MRM. Feminism simply does not address areas in which men are disadvantaged - eg genital integrity, criminal sentencing, victims of violence

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. Richard Morgan‏ @quellist1 Apr 14
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Sure - in an ideal world, the drill would be - spot an injustice, act to address it, regardless of victim. But historically the trend in *general* progressive movements has always been to marginalise women's concerns as secondary to The Cause (whatever that Cause happens to be)

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 14
        Replying to @quellist1

        I disagree.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      10. 4 more replies
      1. New conversation
      2. Rob McMillin‏ @scareduck Apr 13
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Serious question re "non-patriarchal societies": name one.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 13
        Replying to @scareduck

        The UK, the US, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and most of Europe. I wrote a guide to detecting patriarchal societies here:https://areomagazine.com/2017/07/10/how-to-tell-if-youre-living-in-a-patriarchy-a-historical-perspective/ …

        1 reply 4 retweets 3 likes
      4. Rob McMillin‏ @scareduck Apr 13
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Thanks for posting. Pressed for time at the moment, but will read at length later. It seems to me we will likely have differing understandings of what “patriarchy” means.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Rebecca D‏ @happijolly Apr 14
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I have to say, when we, if we, ever reach a post feminist society then I will think about the word.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 14
        Replying to @happijolly

        Clearly, the difference here is that I think we have.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. Marcella Evaristi‏ @MSEvaristi Apr 13
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        You've convinced me. Thank you for your eloquence and clarity.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Rebecca D‏ @happijolly Apr 14
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Besides. If you claim and use a term for yourself that others are trying to weaponize, the effective weapon is negated. For example: queer, lesbian, gay

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. Michael Stewart‏ @statueofmike Apr 13
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Desperate times call for desperate measures. But as you say, we should have higher standards in more equal societies. We can move past gender-nationalism.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. Modus Pwnens‏ @PwnySlaystation Apr 13
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I think the effort required to take back a single, horribly tarnished word is better spent doing stuff that makes a difference. The word is so maligned that to take it back would require such a monumental effort as to be unsuccessful, counter-productive and a waste of energy

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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