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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Cheomit II‏ @cheomitII Apr 10
      Replying to @cheomitII @HPluckrose @naamamarom

      As for what you've been accused of. First, many using slogans seem mean "believe but verify" - assume the accuser is being genuine (not lying) but check what you can. I could check those things. Second, you're conflating rampant online abuse with rare false rape accusations.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 10
      Replying to @cheomitII @naamamarom

      You were applying it more widely and saying we should accept rape accusations like we accept other things like drunken violence which is one of the things I have been falsely accused of.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Cheomit II‏ @cheomitII Apr 10
      Replying to @HPluckrose @naamamarom

      I interpreted "violent alcoholic" differently... so that's relevant. But if I heard a credible story about you being violent when drunk, why shouldn't I take it seriously? Would it be unreasonable for me to pay attention if we went out drinking, at least the first time or two?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 10
      Replying to @cheomitII @naamamarom

      If that's all that happens, sure. Verify for yourself. If you become part of an avoidance group, it just strengthens the rumours.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Cheomit II‏ @cheomitII Apr 10
      Replying to @HPluckrose @naamamarom

      Yes, that possibility is an unfortunate aspect of human society. It sucks to be on the receiving end of that sort of thing. But I imagine it sucks at least as much if, say, your neighbour doesn't tell you what your priest did to their kid, even if they can't prove it in court.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 10
      Replying to @cheomitII @naamamarom

      I would tell people if I thought there was something to be wary of. I'd also believe certain people who told me there was. I'd disbelieve others and retain an open mind for unknowns.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Cheomit II‏ @cheomitII Apr 10
      Replying to @HPluckrose @naamamarom

      Yuh, you're basically describing how society functions: we give the best information we can, we trust proportionate to the evidence (and its sources) we have... The problem, now, of course, is that society is no longer "the people I know personally in my little town".

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Cheomit II‏ @cheomitII Apr 10
      Replying to @cheomitII @HPluckrose @naamamarom

      So we're stuck evaluating information (accusations) from non-traditional sources - people we don't know personally, who may even be anonymous, for example. But then it comes down to, why privilege equally sound accusations from someone you happen to know over a stranger?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 10
      Replying to @cheomitII @naamamarom

      Because I have a way to assess their credibility based on knowledge of their character when strangers could be any kind of loon.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Cheomit II‏ @cheomitII Apr 10
      Replying to @HPluckrose @naamamarom

      But your friend could be a loon, too. You, in fact, stated that you faced this very situation.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 10
      Replying to @cheomitII @naamamarom

      Yes, I didn't believe the one who had schizophrenia and often believed she had been raped. But I do believe people who I know to be mentally well and honest. Don't you?

      10:10 PM - 10 Apr 2018
      • 1 Like
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      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. Cheomit II‏ @cheomitII Apr 10
          Replying to @HPluckrose @naamamarom

          Depends on the claim, of course, and can't compare long time friend with random twitter egg. But going back a little, I was more comparing people you know somewhat (rather than very well known friends) versus strangers who are just as likely to be mentally well and honest.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 10
          Replying to @cheomitII @naamamarom

          Well, I won't trust people I don't know well enough to have established a knowledge of their honesty and mental health, obviously.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Cheomit II‏ @cheomitII Apr 10
          Replying to @HPluckrose @naamamarom

          OK, but assume we would tell the same story, who would you trust more - say, the guy who you say "hi" to in the office every day (and little more), or me? What about me or one of the women accusing Bill Cosby of assault? What about the victim in a case on which you're a juror?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Robert Dobbin‏ @RoboDobo07 Apr 10
          Replying to @cheomitII @HPluckrose @naamamarom

          Robert Dobbin Retweeted Cheomit II

          https://twitter.com/cheomitII/status/983904649445982208?s=19 … The power leashed tho by an accusation of rape far outweighs an accusation of theft..unless of course you steal from the govt. Aurhorities need greater and expansive education on how to deal with these cases ill give you that.

          Robert Dobbin added,

          Cheomit II @cheomitII
          Replying to @HPluckrose @naamamarom
          That's a definite example. And not because people don't give cars away - because false reports of rape are no more common than false reports of robbery (sorry!) (https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/the-prevalence-of-false-allegations-of-rape-in-the-united-states-from-20062010-2475-319X-1000119.php?aid=86695 …). If we took rape and robbery equally seriously, we should be equally accepting of reports. pic.twitter.com/8vYhDLcMi4
          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Cheomit II‏ @cheomitII Apr 10
          Replying to @RoboDobo07

          I don't know about that. I mean, more reported robbers are better investigated, more go to court, more are convicted... that means something. And anecdote, but I know people convicted of sexual crimes (not rape), still see a lot of skepticism around their convictions...

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Cheomit II‏ @cheomitII Apr 10
          Replying to @cheomitII @RoboDobo07

          I agree it *can* devastate a reputation. Probably more so than theft. But I wonder how often accused - even convicted - rapists suffer those devastating consequences. Also, something that hadn't come up in this discussion, but we have to remember we're in a balancing act.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Cheomit II‏ @cheomitII Apr 10
          Replying to @cheomitII @RoboDobo07

          The risk of someone being harmed by a false accusation is real, but so is the harm of not adequately going after perpetrators, or disincentivising people who are trying to offer genuine warnings about a perpetrator.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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