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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
      Replying to @TomasDeTorque

      No, it is not. Show me where it says this. It does not ask for the right to force others to listen to you.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Tomas De Torquemada‏ @TomasDeTorque Apr 2
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Please show me where I said anything about forcing others to listen?! Please address my tweet, not something else.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
      Replying to @TomasDeTorque

      You said 'to anyone you want' and I said 'no'. That is the restriction.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Tomas De Torquemada‏ @TomasDeTorque Apr 2
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Please address this tweet and think about what it would enable in reality...pic.twitter.com/kxCMFdZx0y

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
      Replying to @TomasDeTorque

      I have answered that there is a restriction. They are not allowed to make anyone else listen. Harassment laws remain.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Tomas De Torquemada‏ @TomasDeTorque Apr 2
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Sure, but if a bully stands in a school playground and uses their right to loudly express their hatred for gays, knowing their classmate is gay, does the classmate have to avoid the playground?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
      Replying to @TomasDeTorque

      No. There are already separate rules in schools and workplaces. They do not have to uphold freedom of speech.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Tomas De Torquemada‏ @TomasDeTorque Apr 2
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Exactly. This law if enacted would overturn those rules. This is the point. They want an absolute right to freedom of expression. There is already a qualified right in Article 10. Qualifies because schools etc. can overrule it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
      Replying to @TomasDeTorque

      No, they don't. They want governments not to punish people for speech. Schools can still punish bullies. Employers can still fire them.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Tomas De Torquemada‏ @TomasDeTorque Apr 2
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      You’re not listening to me. Do you know what the ECHR is? They are effectively asking for Art. 10 to be made absolute. If that was the case, schools could not stop bullies from saying anything they wanted. By doing so it would be the same as killing them (Art. 2).

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
      Replying to @TomasDeTorque

      Show me. The ECHR wants to stop schools tackling bullies?

      6:07 PM - 2 Apr 2018
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Tomas De Torquemada‏ @TomasDeTorque Apr 2
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Not currently, that’s my point. This petition would cause it.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
          Replying to @TomasDeTorque

          Don't be so silly. Best case scenario, the government has to debate making a free speech act and getting rid of hate speech laws. They are very unlikely to say 'I know! Lets take control of schools away from teachers too!'

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
          Replying to @HPluckrose @TomasDeTorque

          If they do, I will oppose this, but things are going the opposite way. A proper freedom of speech law like the American 1st amendment would stop the government from arresting people for their ideas but would not overrule codes of conduct in schools & workplaces

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Tomas De Torquemada‏ @TomasDeTorque Apr 2
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Look up ECHR. Art. 10 is a qualified right. Art. 2 (Right to Life) and Art. 3 (Prohibition of Torture) are currently the only absolute ones. If Article 10 was made absolute, anyone could say anything they liked. Domestic laws could not stop them.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
          Replying to @TomasDeTorque

          How do you get from a petition asking the government to set up free speech laws to schools not being able to stop bullies. We are asking for people not to be arrested for speech, not saying all speech must be allowed everywhere.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Tomas De Torquemada‏ @TomasDeTorque Apr 2
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          I get there because I understand and operate with ECHR and UK domestic law on a daily basis. Article 10 is a qualified right for very good reasons. One of them is because it allows schools to stop bullying another because it allows our harassment laws to operate.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
          Replying to @TomasDeTorque

          ??? How will schools be affected by government no longer being able to arrest people for bad ideas? They have the option of detentions & expulsion for bullying

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Tomas De Torquemada‏ @TomasDeTorque Apr 2
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Because the person excluded would be able to sue the school for breaching human rights laws! This is why the Right to Life is absolute but Freedom of Expression is not. You can see why one is more important than the other?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
          Replying to @TomasDeTorque

          There is no human right to say what you like in schools! The proposal is for a law which prevents government from interfering with speech. That is all. There is no corresponding rule for schools or work! Kids have to talk about what the teachers tell them. Maths, English etc.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Tomas De Torquemada‏ @TomasDeTorque Apr 3
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Ok, I said in a playground. Currently, bullies can’t say anything they want. My point is, with a law stopping intervention on freedom of expression, the school couldn’t stop them expressing themselves how they wanted. If you don’t get that, I seriously suggest researching ECHR.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. End of conversation

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