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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
      Replying to @FrancisRoyCA

      You don't have to believe that same sex couples should have the right to get married but this a right people who fight for LGBT rights do fight for. I don't define rights as serving the purpose of permitting one to perform a duty and offspring is not a duty of marriage.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Francis Roy‏ @FrancisRoyCA Apr 2
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Then you do not use the word "right," a legal term, the way that those who legislate, adjudicate and enforce the laws do. Offspring is not a duty of marriage, but duty to offspring is the purpose of marriage.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
      Replying to @FrancisRoyCA

      That should be changed then. Duty to offspring should be independent of whether their parents are married and whether they are the same sex or the opposite sex.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Francis Roy‏ @FrancisRoyCA Apr 2
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Why? Just a reminder that offspring means the product of sexual reproduction, not merely any child in the vicinity. I agree that offspring, and children in general should be cared for. But none of this addresses assigning traditional purpose-created legal rights to non-parents.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
      Replying to @FrancisRoyCA

      I don't care much about traditional purposes of marriage. That has changed a lot over time and space. Now it mostly signals a loving commitment which is why same sex couples want the same right to do it. And I think people have a duty to care for their adopted children too.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Francis Roy‏ @FrancisRoyCA Apr 2
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      "I don't care much about traditional purposes of marriage." Then why have it at all? Why should the state (that's us) assign benefits of those who would claim it? Note that guardianship does not confer the benefits of inheritances, power of attorney, etc. between two guardians.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
      Replying to @FrancisRoyCA

      Surely you recognise that people can value things for other reasons than tradition? I married my husband to show my love and commitment to him. I don't think the state should privilege married couples over unmarried ones.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Francis Roy‏ @FrancisRoyCA Apr 2
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      1. I do; it is beside the point. The value of marriage is not to support tradition. Marriage has become tradition because it has shown that it is a functional element in the smooth operation of a society aiming at eudaimonia. ->

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
      Replying to @FrancisRoyCA

      Then why would you want to deny it to same sex couples?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Francis Roy‏ @FrancisRoyCA Apr 2
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Threading and timing has got me lost. What does this question follow? Can you quote a brief snippet for context?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
      Replying to @FrancisRoyCA

      If you think marriage is benefit for the smooth running of society, why deny it to same sex couples? Won't they do better in committed relationships? Won't their children benefit from their parents being married? (In your view?)

      2:11 PM - 2 Apr 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Francis Roy‏ @FrancisRoyCA Apr 2
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          (Gimme a sec, I want to respond in order so that we can keep our ducks straight.)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
          Replying to @FrancisRoyCA

          I'm not really interested in arguing about same sex marriage any more. It's been done to death and the battle has mostly been won.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Francis Roy‏ @FrancisRoyCA Apr 2
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          OK, fine. This is the first time I've engaged in it. To me, your positions are based on feelings, not rational consideration. You've left me unpersuaded. But if you want to end it, that's fine, I'll respect that.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
          Replying to @FrancisRoyCA

          You don't need to be persuaded. There is no rational reason for denying same sex couples the right to marry. It doesn't affect you in any way.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Francis Roy‏ @FrancisRoyCA Apr 2
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          There is, but you've told me that you didn't want to continue the conversation. And if conversation is not about exchange and persuasion, then what is it for? I think that it does affect me, that I'm willing to discuss it. But that's your choice, and that's fine.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
          Replying to @FrancisRoyCA

          I've just had the conversation too many times. It's tedious. I do think marriage is an emotional thing - about loving commitment - rather than a rational one - linking families or producing children to run your farm - now but that doesn't make equal rights irrational.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Francis Roy‏ @FrancisRoyCA Apr 2
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Are you continuing this conversation, or not? Up to you.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Francis Roy‏ @FrancisRoyCA Apr 2
          Replying to @FrancisRoyCA @HPluckrose

          Actually, now, never mind. I'm no longer interested.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. End of conversation

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