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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2

      Helen Pluckrose Retweeted Rick von SLAYger

      I absolutely know it's possible to see things like LGBT rights and reproductive freedom as society becoming less moral. I wouldn't bother arguing so much against that position if it wasn't.https://twitter.com/OldSaintRiot/status/980893110799499264 …

      Helen Pluckrose added,

      Rick von SLAYger @RickVonJaeger
      Replying to @HPluckrose
      Okay, well, I do not think that, but you understand the point that it's possible to see things as a step backwards, yes?
      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    2. Francis Roy‏ @FrancisRoyCA Apr 2
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      When I hear people talk about a struggle for LGBT rights, I wonder "What rights do these citizens not enjoy that the rest of us do? Are there specific rights that are abrogated?"

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
      Replying to @FrancisRoyCA

      Well, that wouldn't make a whole lot of sense if you live somewhere which already has them, obviously.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Francis Roy‏ @FrancisRoyCA Apr 2
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      I live in Canada. Are there parts of the Western world that abrogate gay people's rights? I exclude Africa and the Middle-East from this question. In those cases, the right to struggle are not LGBT rights, even if it directly affects gay folks, but human rights.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
      Replying to @FrancisRoyCA

      Well, that is what is meant by LGBT rights - making the rights of LGBT people the same as the rights of others. We have full equality here now. Before we had same sex marriage, that was a right that was lacking. Now it isn't.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Francis Roy‏ @FrancisRoyCA Apr 2
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      1. I don't believe that marriage, per say, is a right that is/should be afforded to two people of the same sex. A right serves the purpose of permitting one to perform a duty, and in the case of marriage, the duty is to the well-being of offspring produced by the couple.

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
      Replying to @FrancisRoyCA

      You don't have to believe that same sex couples should have the right to get married but this a right people who fight for LGBT rights do fight for. I don't define rights as serving the purpose of permitting one to perform a duty and offspring is not a duty of marriage.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Francis Roy‏ @FrancisRoyCA Apr 2
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Then you do not use the word "right," a legal term, the way that those who legislate, adjudicate and enforce the laws do. Offspring is not a duty of marriage, but duty to offspring is the purpose of marriage.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
      Replying to @FrancisRoyCA

      That should be changed then. Duty to offspring should be independent of whether their parents are married and whether they are the same sex or the opposite sex.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Francis Roy‏ @FrancisRoyCA Apr 2
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Why? Just a reminder that offspring means the product of sexual reproduction, not merely any child in the vicinity. I agree that offspring, and children in general should be cared for. But none of this addresses assigning traditional purpose-created legal rights to non-parents.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
      Replying to @FrancisRoyCA

      I don't care much about traditional purposes of marriage. That has changed a lot over time and space. Now it mostly signals a loving commitment which is why same sex couples want the same right to do it. And I think people have a duty to care for their adopted children too.

      1:44 PM - 2 Apr 2018
      • 1 Like
      • mdkhalek
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Francis Roy‏ @FrancisRoyCA Apr 2
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          "I don't care much about traditional purposes of marriage." Then why have it at all? Why should the state (that's us) assign benefits of those who would claim it? Note that guardianship does not confer the benefits of inheritances, power of attorney, etc. between two guardians.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
          Replying to @FrancisRoyCA

          Surely you recognise that people can value things for other reasons than tradition? I married my husband to show my love and commitment to him. I don't think the state should privilege married couples over unmarried ones.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Francis Roy‏ @FrancisRoyCA Apr 2
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          1. I do; it is beside the point. The value of marriage is not to support tradition. Marriage has become tradition because it has shown that it is a functional element in the smooth operation of a society aiming at eudaimonia. ->

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
          Replying to @FrancisRoyCA

          Then why would you want to deny it to same sex couples?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Francis Roy‏ @FrancisRoyCA Apr 2
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Threading and timing has got me lost. What does this question follow? Can you quote a brief snippet for context?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
          Replying to @FrancisRoyCA

          If you think marriage is benefit for the smooth running of society, why deny it to same sex couples? Won't they do better in committed relationships? Won't their children benefit from their parents being married? (In your view?)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Francis Roy‏ @FrancisRoyCA Apr 2
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          (Gimme a sec, I want to respond in order so that we can keep our ducks straight.)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 2
          Replying to @FrancisRoyCA

          I'm not really interested in arguing about same sex marriage any more. It's been done to death and the battle has mostly been won.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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