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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Mar 14

      Helen Pluckrose Retweeted Peter Tatchell

      Interesting. I have not tended to focus much on this problem within the socialist left, looking more at the problems in the identitarian left. I shall investigate.https://twitter.com/PeterTatchell/status/973930531254661120 …

      Helen Pluckrose added,

      Peter TatchellVerified account @PeterTatchell
      Read @kenanmalik on: The working class, immigration, populism & the Left. Why pandering to anti-immigration xenophobia is wrong & won't work for the Left: https://kenanmalik.wordpress.com/2018/03/11/the-working-class-immigration-the-left … @mehdirhasan @AdamBarnett13 @georgeeaton @HPluckrose @lynne_segal @ken4london @MichaelRosenYes
      4 replies 1 retweet 8 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Mar 14

      I am much more sympathetic to the old style socialist/radical left than the new style intersectional/identitarian left. They are also generally much more sympathetic to me - a old style liberal leftie which used not to be the case. .

      9 replies 0 retweets 28 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Cory‏ @corymassimino Mar 14
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Why is totalizing class identity any better than other identities? Seems to me they are all relevant in achieving more liberal social system.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Mar 14
      Replying to @corymassimino

      Not about identity. About measurable needs & providing for them.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Cory‏ @corymassimino Mar 14
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Surely those you accuse of engaging in identity politics would argue they are also concerned about measurable needs and providing for them?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Mar 14
      Replying to @corymassimino

      I am talking about economic needs. Basic human needs. People of both sexes, all races, all stations in life can require an economic safety net. I support this. This is not identitarian. It is to be available to everyone who needs it.

      8:33 AM - 14 Mar 2018
      • 1 Like
      • Eric Hamell
      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Mar 14
          Replying to @HPluckrose @corymassimino

          Helen Pluckrose Retweeted Mel Liflora

          This:https://twitter.com/melliflora/status/973945560448221185 …

          Helen Pluckrose added,

          Mel Liflora @melliflora
          Old style radical lefty sees a Dad of kid with leukemia, who got downsized from his job, lost insurance coverage as a result, bankrupted himself & lost his house paying for his kid's meds. Now homeless. #SJW lefty sees cishet white dude who needs to STFU & check his "privilege." https://twitter.com/HPluckrose/status/973941170807197697 …
          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Cory‏ @corymassimino Mar 14
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Sure that's a problem and I'm not interested in defending it. But is that problem inherent in even considering non-class identities? It seems similarly wrong for someone to look at a wealthy business woman and respond to her complaints about workplace sexism with "but your rich!"

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Mar 14
          Replying to @corymassimino

          Of course. I am making the point I am making and nothing else. Not sure where you are going. I am leaving it here.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Cory‏ @corymassimino Mar 14
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          sorry didn't mean to be hostile. just trying to challenge what i see as an inconsistency. followed you after you were on econtalk, enjoy your work.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Mar 14
          Replying to @corymassimino

          You just seem to be missing the point and making assumptions which bear no relation to anything I think.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Cory‏ @corymassimino Mar 14
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          I'm arguing the assumption that the old left/socialist left and the identitarian left are somehow fundamentally different is mistaken. There is similar logic in both arguments.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Mar 14
          Replying to @corymassimino

          I will be writing a thing soon which looks at their points of similarity. They share moral foundations and some key concepts. They differ vastly on epistemology and cultural relativism & their understanding of systems of power.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Mar 14
          Replying to @HPluckrose @corymassimino

          But even where it is true that they have things in common, it remains true that I am more sympathetic to the side which doesn't call me a bigot, misogynist, nazi, white supremacist homophobe for arguing for universal liberalism. I am the only authority on where my sympathies are.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Cory‏ @corymassimino Mar 14
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Those engaged in identity politics are also concerned with economic needs (and social/psychological needs which those interested in class have also historically talked about).

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Mar 14
          Replying to @corymassimino

          Not noticeably. Much more focused on identity. They're generally shit with economics coz it spoils the intersectional oppression olympics if you have to include poor white men. But if you don't see difference between old labour left and the new identitarian left. I'll leave it

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Cory‏ @corymassimino Mar 14
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          No, I see a huge difference. I just think they are so often talking past each other, dismissing the others' entire cause/lens because of extreme examples.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. End of conversation

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