Don't then? I don't think anyone claims this, do they? This was why we needed 10,000 words. It's well known that the Enlightenment closely connected to the Renaissance which was heavily informed by Ancient Greece. This might be of interest academically but is not really point.
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Replying to @HPluckrose @Plato4Now and
Why not? It's extremely important in tracing the basis to our moral values.
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Replying to @TheDissenterYT @Plato4Now and
Go for it. I am also interested in this. The Renaissance is my period of study. However, the history of ideas found in the Enlightenment need not inform our every moral decision now.
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Replying to @HPluckrose @Plato4Now and
Yes, but if you say that things like reason, individualism, progress, science, and so on, inform our current values, then what I answer is that those ideas are much more ancient than the Enlightenment.
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Replying to @TheDissenterYT @Plato4Now and
OK, you can answer that if you think it adds anything. Then we can continue discussing the claim that things like reason, individualism, progress, science, and so on, inform our current values?
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Replying to @HPluckrose @Plato4Now and
Yes, but I was not denying the fact that they do. Just that: 1 - It doesn't come all from scientific facts. Scientific facts by themselves don't create moral values. They can inform them, of course. 2 - Those ideas are much more ancient than the Enlightenment.
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Replying to @TheDissenterYT @Plato4Now and
OK. This is certainly something to tell people who claim that scientific facts by themselves create moral values and that ideas which became dominant during the Enlightenment never appeared before in any form anywhere. If that's all the convo is about, I will move on.
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Replying to @HPluckrose @TheDissenterYT and
1/ There was some of that. But the connection between the two is where the interesting part was. If you can’t get values from empirical facts about nature, where can we discover them? Modern philosophers tried to find them in passions (sympathy: Hume) or reason (Kant).
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Replying to @Plato4Now @TheDissenterYT and
But are we including our evolved brains as an empirical fact about nature? Because I think it's clear morality comes from them. If not, where? A soul? Remove the frontal lobe & morality is gone. I think I see why James was referencing magic now.
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Replying to @HPluckrose @Plato4Now and
No, not a soul. But let's say that through an iterative collective process, based on our biology (including our moral sentiments) morality develops as a part of human culture. And that's not the same as the moral sense itself or the facts.
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No, its a lot of moral senses and reason all working together.
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