Sadly, often this is offered, yes! But it needn't be. We can set premises based on things which evidently exist, like humans and suffering.
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Replying to @HPluckrose @GodDoesnt and
We covered this earlier in the thread. But to boil it down. You can stipulate those premises, but you cannot *justify* the stipulation with empirical science. So you either fail to justify them, and thus fail to be fully rational. Or you justify them by another method.
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Replying to @Plato4Now @GodDoesnt and
Well, yes. There isn't actually any objective morality outside humanity that we know of. Just our own evolved moral sense which makes us moral animals and gives our morality some consistencies which then inform the customs & discussion of it forever.
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Replying to @HPluckrose @Plato4Now and
Of course. But the problem is not that moral sentiments, which are the product of evolution, are at the basis of human culture, including morality. Just that you have to decide philosophically which ones to give priority to, and which ones to base the choosing of the facts
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Replying to @TheDissenterYT @Plato4Now and
Yes. I'll argue for liberalism and humanism and individual liberty because I think this is best for human thriving. Someone else will argue for a theocratic caliphate coz they think this best for human thriving coz they think Heaven is a thing & ensures ultimate human thriving.
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Replying to @HPluckrose @TheDissenterYT and
The facts matter here because the claim that there is a heaven for people who worship a particular god is a factual claim. If convinced there is not, people are likely to seek to maximise human thriving a different way.
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Replying to @HPluckrose @Plato4Now and
Yes, facts matter, but not by themselves. That was the schism here.
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But now I think you're arguing that evolved morality is also a scientific fact that isn't enough by itself. That we set premises based on something other than this and if so, what?
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