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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Mar 5

      Helen Pluckrose Retweeted LyndonBarry43

      These are not the same thing. Some programs might be in keeping with the values of the Enlightenment and some might not.https://twitter.com/BarryLyndon34/status/970856396278378496 …

      Helen Pluckrose added,

      LyndonBarry43 @BarryLyndon34
      Replying to @HPluckrose @YeyoZa @GodDoesnt
      Squashing assemblies and defunding college programs would be a bad look for lovers of the Enlightenment
      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    2. LyndonBarry43‏ @BarryLyndon34 Mar 5
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      So the Enlightenment thinkers would propose that all programs that are not "Enlightenment" enough should not move forward? As we discussed, not even Biology is coherent with Enlightenment thinking.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Mar 5
      Replying to @BarryLyndon34

      Then we're using different definitions of Enlightenment. No-one is suggesting go backwards to the lack of scientific knowledge we had in that time but simply using its approach which is the one which brought about the development of science.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. LyndonBarry43‏ @BarryLyndon34 Mar 5
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Yes, we are, which is why I wondered if the views being expressed by the crowd are more in line with someone like Nietzsche who someone like Steven Pinker singled out in his new book, a point that I agree with him about.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Mar 5
      Replying to @BarryLyndon34

      What crowd?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. LyndonBarry43‏ @BarryLyndon34 Mar 5
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Also, I am in my right to question as your profile lists you as a "pragmatic Humanist" and what I am saying is that not only do I see those ideas as opposites, but also I don't see some of the views as being aligned with egalitarian Humanism.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Mar 5
      Replying to @BarryLyndon34

      Then we might be using terms differently. My pragmatism does not conflict in any way with liberalism or egalitarianism. I just want to get there using methods that work rather than revolution.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. LyndonBarry43‏ @BarryLyndon34 Mar 5
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Interesting discussion. I'll let it rest there. Perhaps we just have a different understanding of Pragmatism. Because I see it, Pragmatism has more in common with Postmodernism than it does the Enlightenment or Humanism. But I digress. Goodnight.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Mar 5
      Replying to @BarryLyndon34

      Yes. This is where @Intrinsic29 and I use the word differently. I mean 'sensible, reasonable, practical, workable solutions such as I argued for here: https://areomagazine.com/2017/09/27/an-argument-for-a-liberal-and-rational-approach-to-transgender-rights-and-inclusion/ … But he uses it to mean making things work according to an ideology. Like Peterson does. Like the pomos.

      7:27 PM - 5 Mar 2018
      • 2 Likes
      • Davé Kevin
      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Kevin‏ @Intrinsic29 Mar 5
          Replying to @HPluckrose @BarryLyndon34

          Yeah, I'm ok with both definitions but epistemic pragmatism values the utility of propositions over their actual truth value and usually entails the belief that actual truth can't be obtained.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Mar 5
          Replying to @Intrinsic29 @BarryLyndon34

          Maybe I'll stop using that then.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. Kevin‏ @Intrinsic29 Mar 5
          Replying to @HPluckrose @BarryLyndon34

          JBP also calls his epistemology pragmatism though his version is even worse (just replacing the definition of "truth" with his version of utility).

          2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        5. LyndonBarry43‏ @BarryLyndon34 Mar 5
          Replying to @Intrinsic29 @HPluckrose

          Kevin, again, that's exactly how I understand it too. Which is not what Steven Pinker is voicing support for in his new book when he rejects someone like Nietzsche?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Kevin‏ @Intrinsic29 Mar 5
          Replying to @BarryLyndon34 @HPluckrose

          I haven't read it yet. No spoilers. :p

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Mar 5
          Replying to @Intrinsic29 @BarryLyndon34

          I haven't either. Paging @salonium

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        8. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. LyndonBarry43‏ @BarryLyndon34 Mar 5
          Replying to @HPluckrose @Intrinsic29

          I would say correct because if one is appealing to ethics then one is being somewhat idealistic? Yet, if one is being Pragmatic then they are abandoning the idealism of ethics, sort of like Nietzsche or even Machiavelli.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Mar 5
          Replying to @BarryLyndon34 @Intrinsic29

          I think there needs to be a workable (pragmatic?) method as well as principles. Getting these in balance is vital. eg, many of my fellow lefties just want to rage about Trump. I see focusing on fixing the left as a better strategy to defeat him. Same ideals. Different approach.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. LyndonBarry43‏ @BarryLyndon34 Mar 5
          Replying to @HPluckrose @Intrinsic29

          I agree that someone like Bernie Sanders appeals to someone who is idealistically striving for ethical standards while someone like Hillary Clinton, who calls herself Pragmatic, would appeal to Pragmatists. But the Pragmatist in this case is the "Centrist."

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. End of conversation

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