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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Feb 8

    Helen Pluckrose Retweeted Forgotten ancestors

    But no-one is disagreeing on the normative statement that sometimes men harass women. We're talking about whether women beat any responsibility for this by wearing lipstick & heels and working in the same place as men.https://twitter.com/nice_hypothesis/status/961788751864201216 …

    Helen Pluckrose added,

    Forgotten ancestors @nice_hypothesis
    Replying to @HPluckrose @IonaItalia
    The latter statement is again a normative statement not an empirical one, yes ofcourse people should be free from harrassment no mattwr what,but in reality it does happen and this is why people tell the individual what to do. Also no its really not an equivalent argument
    6:33 PM - 8 Feb 2018
    • 5 Likes
    • Roxane Danikins Regina🎃 Stålfreddan Barbara murphy
    4 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Alex J.‏ @alexo986 Feb 9
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        No, women don't bear responsibility for being harassed by wearing lipstick. But they do bear rensponsibility for making the workplace sexual (as do men!). We can't divorce sexuality from the workplace, nor should we. We do need, though, clearer rules of conduct.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. (((A Student, For Real)))‏ @J_indetroit Feb 9
        Replying to @alexo986 @HPluckrose

        How does a woman make the workplace sexual? Is wearing makeup a sexual display?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Alex J.‏ @alexo986 Feb 9
        Replying to @J_indetroit @HPluckrose

        Any effort men/women make to be more attractive contributes to the erotic. This, of course, is not a green light for sexual advances. Sexuality is integral to our being, we shouldn't separate it. We need to cultivate proper interactions.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. (((A Student, For Real)))‏ @J_indetroit Feb 9
        Replying to @alexo986 @HPluckrose

        So when a group of women, 70-year-old longtime friends, go out to dinner together without their husbands, their makeup is a sexual display rather than a societal norm? Just trying to understand the rules here.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. (((A Student, For Real)))‏ @J_indetroit Feb 9
        Replying to @J_indetroit @alexo986 @HPluckrose

        And what is “effort to be more attractive?” How does one NOT do that? What if you’re shaped nicely and look good in jeans? Should you wear a bag to project sexual unavailability? Where are you going with this?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Alex J.‏ @alexo986 Feb 9
        Replying to @J_indetroit @HPluckrose

        Well this is the subjective part of the problem, which can't be legislated. Even if you wear a bag some might find that alluring. It's an interaction. You can't project sexual unavailabity in the absolute. You can however express and negotiate it!

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. (((A Student, For Real)))‏ @J_indetroit Feb 9
        Replying to @alexo986 @HPluckrose

        But you’re always projecting sexuality, is what I’m hearing from you. And if that is accepted, then it becomes the further responsibility of women to negotiate others’ perceptions of their sexual availability. What if I only want to be recognized at work for my work competence?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. Alex J.‏ @alexo986 Feb 9
        Replying to @J_indetroit @HPluckrose

        We are all responsible, not just women! It would be great if we could live in a world were we could understand eachother perfectly, but that's unrealistic. What we could do is reduce the gray area with proper socialisation and cultivation of healthy interactions.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      10. 6 more replies
      1. New conversation
      2. Forgotten ancestors‏ @nice_hypothesis Feb 8
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        People who think safety is more important will tell women to do that, and those who think liberty is more important wont, and it seems all of us fall on the latter side which is causing this debaucle with JP

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Tradia‏ @amalieskram Feb 8
        Replying to @nice_hypothesis @HPluckrose

        I respect your right to that opinion, but do you then agree with the Muslims who claim the same re women and modest clothing and hijab?

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Forgotten ancestors‏ @nice_hypothesis Feb 8
        Replying to @amalieskram @HPluckrose

        They are giving proximate reasons, women are more likely than men to mandate mandatory hijab for women, and this is due to intrasexual competition

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. Acya‏ @robcvrter Feb 8
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        This is a statement. Reality. Shit getting funnier and funnier. I got dudes talking about trump this trump that. I haven't met one demo yet.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. Forgotten ancestors‏ @nice_hypothesis Feb 8
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I personally think women should be still allowed to wear makeup and whatever, but the other side of the argument is not in anyway false, its just a matter of what you think is important: liberty or safety

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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