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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Paul Bates‏ @PaulBates7 Jan 29
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      It's a thought experiment. Just narrow it down w/o complicating it. (It's complicated enough). Woman goes to find out if she's pregnant. She can have an abortion, send that clump of cells off to an incubator, or have the child. The first two are equally easy medically. Now what?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 29
      Replying to @PaulBates7

      I'd have to give thought to it and this would require thinking around the problem which would include the ethics of letting eggs and sperm die. I have not yet given thought to it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Paul Bates‏ @PaulBates7 Jan 29
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Please do, but I'd say the ethics of leaving sperm or eggs around to die is immaterial. As are questions on contraception, abstinence and the like. It's better to narrow it down to conception. Two things coming together to make something new and unique is the proper dividing spot

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 29
      Replying to @PaulBates7

      That's what needs proving with rational argument first. Why? Is it just the cognitive bias that tells us that failing to make something is better than stopping something that has started even tho the consequences are the same for the potential person? Not sure that's good enough

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Paul Bates‏ @PaulBates7 Jan 31
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Here's my problem with you saying pro-life people are irrational. Does human life begin at conception? It's certainly a rational, logical, philosophically, and altogether scientifically sound concept. For sake of argument: Human life begins at conception. Now what?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 31
      Replying to @PaulBates7

      But I don't say that pro-life people are irrational. I say that that position is often based on an intuitive, rather than rational sense of an embryo as a baby.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Paul Bates‏ @PaulBates7 Jan 31
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      I responded bc you called them irrational. Sometimes, yes they are. But not on that intuitive care/harm level. That's completely rational. From pro-choice, I see as much irrationality. Maybe my own sense of it is the same.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Paul Bates‏ @PaulBates7 Jan 31
      Replying to @PaulBates7 @HPluckrose

      Whether an embryo is a clump of cells or a baby is a not a matter of scientific determinability. It is an arbitrary one.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 31
      Replying to @PaulBates7

      Precisely. Not rational. Rational needs info on brain development etc

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Paul Bates‏ @PaulBates7 Jan 31
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      No it doesn't. Now that's cognitive bias. Why does rational need brain development or other metrics? Only to fit your arbitrary definition. It's life. It's a human life. Whether it can think or feel pain does not change that.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 31
      Replying to @PaulBates7

      You can make an ethical argument based on scientific knowledge about awareness or ability to suffer. Not on when something becomes a human life which as you say is arbitrary.

      2:35 AM - 31 Jan 2018
      • 1 Like
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      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Paul Bates‏ @PaulBates7 Jan 31
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Science changes it's definitions from day to day and processes. A story that is constantly edited. The heavens rotated around us. Viruses couldn't cause cancer. Black holes were impossible. Fat was the cause of obesity. Relying on science, no matter how solid, is shaky ground.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Paul Bates‏ @PaulBates7 Jan 31
          Replying to @PaulBates7 @HPluckrose

          Science may be profoundly wrong on consciousness or the ability to suffer. Just twenty years ago, we thought the universe had to be slowing down around us.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. Paul Bates‏ @PaulBates7 Jan 31
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Enjoying the discussion, btw. Thanks for thinking this out with me.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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