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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 29

      This is an unpopular view among my fellow liberals but think twice before assuming a pro-lifer is anti female sexual freedom. They may be but there is also an intuitive objection to abortion which is on the very liberal care/harm foundation. Note I said 'intuitive', not rational.

      23 replies 12 retweets 101 likes
    2. Claire Voltaire‏ @Claire_Voltaire Jan 29
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      It really depends if their moral stance comes from a deeply religious and perhaps catholic view which forbids the use of bc- likely, or its a personal issue of moral which doesn’t wish to judge morality of sex behavior, just protect sanctity of life- unlikely.

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 29
      Replying to @Claire_Voltaire

      I don't think it is unlikely, Claire, but this might be because I don't know many religious people but very many people who think abortion is wrong because they empathise with the embryo. Not many religious people here but many pro-lifers.

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    4. Saint‏ @SaintTzu Jan 29
      Replying to @HPluckrose @Claire_Voltaire

      Even setting sentiment aside, it’s not at all clear to me that the universe in which ‘it’s just a bundle of unwanted cells’ is ethically or morally superior to one in which ‘it’s a complete person with all attendant rights’.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 29
      Replying to @SaintTzu @Claire_Voltaire

      Might be factually superior and this should inform our ethics? http://helenpluckroseblogs.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/my-position-on-abortion.html …

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Saint‏ @SaintTzu Jan 29
      Replying to @HPluckrose @Claire_Voltaire

      Saint Retweeted Saint

      Here’s a brief expansion of my thoughts.https://twitter.com/sainttzu/status/954785526841823233 …

      Saint added,

      Saint @SaintTzu
      Today the #WomensMarch2018 is going on. It’s focused heavily on the abortion issue and characterized by groups talking past each other and disagreeing in much the same way as they have for decades.
      Show this thread
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Saint‏ @SaintTzu Jan 29
      Replying to @SaintTzu @HPluckrose @Claire_Voltaire

      I agree with your point that anything that stopped the process of ‘you’ would have been all the same in the end as far as you’re concerned. But I don’t think it follows that a society which allowed one way of ending things is therefore equivalent to one which took a different way

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 29
      Replying to @SaintTzu @Claire_Voltaire

      I don't think it is. I think a society which allows women to terminate unwanted pregnancies is better to one that doesn't.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Saint‏ @SaintTzu Jan 29
      Replying to @HPluckrose @Claire_Voltaire

      Do you think there might be a place on the allowing side that’s just as far off the mark as the forbidding one? I mean, the people who want to hold a Freedom Party and get a tattoo to celebrate getting an abortion, for instance.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 29
      Replying to @SaintTzu @Claire_Voltaire

      I think the equivalent of the forbidding abortion position would be forbidding not having an abortion. People can celebrate having an abortion if they want even if others find it distasteful. They can tolerate it like atheists must tolerate people celebrating being 'saved' etc

      6:32 PM - 29 Jan 2018
      • 2 Likes
      • Saint Regina🎃
      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Saint‏ @SaintTzu Jan 29
          Replying to @HPluckrose @Claire_Voltaire

          You mentioned forbidding vs allowing as a society. I think you can consider allowing as a middle ground between forbidding and celebrating or encouraging. I agree that allowing abortion is better than forbidding, all other things equal.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 29
          Replying to @SaintTzu @Claire_Voltaire

          I'd be wary tho. I think people should be allowed to celebrate their reproductive decisions. I would not be at all happy with saying 'You're allowed to decide for or against abortion' but celebrating either is wrong. I celebrated my decision to bring a pregnancy to term.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Saint‏ @SaintTzu Jan 29
          Replying to @HPluckrose @Claire_Voltaire

          We’re (or at least I was) speaking about the general attitude or approach of a society, not just some individuals who may well not reflect the society at large.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 29
          Replying to @SaintTzu @Claire_Voltaire

          I havent known a society which celebrated abortion tho. Advertised it as a positive good, had party traditions around it, had TV shows which focused on abortion as a party theme. Generally, its a private and sad thing.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        6. Saint‏ @SaintTzu Jan 29
          Replying to @HPluckrose @Claire_Voltaire

          Yes, such a thing has not yet appeared. However there are small groups of people like this, and, as is the nature of the present age, they are greatly magnified by the anti-abortion demagogues as personifying the world liberals want.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Saint‏ @SaintTzu Jan 29
          Replying to @SaintTzu @HPluckrose @Claire_Voltaire

          I think we generally agree about where the balance should be struck, at least for now. But if we want to make the case for that position we must, I think, take some pains to say that allowing abortion is not the same thing as encouraging or celebrating it.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 29
          Replying to @SaintTzu @Claire_Voltaire

          It does feel like we need to say that but this really shows bias. We feel no need to say that allowing people to carry babies to term is not the same as encouraging it or celebrating it.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 29
          Replying to @HPluckrose @SaintTzu @Claire_Voltaire

          I know that this is substantially different because becoming a parent is something most people are excited about and an abortion is a surgical procedure to resolve a problem but on an ethical level choosing to continue or end a pregnancy should be neutral.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        10. 2 more replies

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