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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 18

    People who say they don't care what others think of them are a) Speaking of specific groups of people they don't want to impress, b) highly neurologically atypical or mentally ill, c) lying to present a certain image thus caring what people think of them.

    3:07 PM - 18 Jan 2018
    • 57 Retweets
    • 197 Likes
    • Václav Haisman Rensie john paige Zaelkrie 🇿🇦 Mcon 🙃 Regina🎃 Rakhesh Braunstein Tänka tanken
    15 replies 57 retweets 197 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 18

        Caring what others think of us has formed us as a species. This is why we have what Jonathan Haidt called 'an inner lawyer, rather than an inner scientist', experience being wrong as so embarrassing and have to work so hard against confirmation bias.

        2 replies 8 retweets 53 likes
        Show this thread
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 18

        This is why public shaming is such an awful experience. It really cannot be diminished because its affects are psychological rather than physical. For many, getting seriously injured in their body is preferable to being seriously injured in their reputation. The former heals.

        4 replies 9 retweets 60 likes
        Show this thread
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Jay & Violent Mob, Insert Tribal Identity Here‏ @JAndViolentMob Jan 18
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I question the close cohabitation of the terms "neurologically atypical" and "mentally ill" in the above comment.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 18
        Replying to @JAndViolentMob

        It is simply true that both of those things can cause a lack of concern for the opinions of others.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Jay & Violent Mob, Insert Tribal Identity Here‏ @JAndViolentMob Jan 18
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        True, but I imagine you get my meaning.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 18
        Replying to @JAndViolentMob

        I think you might be implying that saying two things can both cause the same symptom is to imply that they are similar things but this is not the case at all.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      6. Jay & Violent Mob, Insert Tribal Identity Here‏ @JAndViolentMob Jan 18
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        That's cool. Glad for the clarity. I'm passionate about celebrating atypical neurology, and have too often seen it labelled "mental illness".

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 18
        Replying to @JAndViolentMob

        :) That is why there is an 'or' between them.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      8. Jay & Violent Mob, Insert Tribal Identity Here‏ @JAndViolentMob Jan 18
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I guess it was the three categories, with these two items cohabited one of them. I was left thinking, in what way do they belong in the same category, as opposed to being in the others, or separate? In what way are they the same?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 18
        Replying to @JAndViolentMob

        They are the things that can make people genuinely not care what others think about them. Things which affect typical human sociality. Those people are telling the truth, not lying or speaking only in a particular context.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      10. 1 more reply
      1. New conversation
      2. Tris Mamone  🌹‏ @tmamone Jan 19
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        #1 is definitely true for me. I care if I say something derogatory towards marginalized people, but I don’t care if I upset an MRA for hurting his feelings.

        4 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 19
        Replying to @tmamone

        Me too. People often worry that I am upset by a barrage of abuse from extremists of various kinds but I am not. Losing the good opinion of someone who values human rights, gender/racial/LGBT equality, universal liberalism is very painful tho.

        1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      4. Aikanek‏ @Aikanek1 Jan 19
        Replying to @HPluckrose @tmamone

        I mean shouldn't we care about groups we dislike. I mean from my view the are ideologically possessed or just wrong in their beliefs. We should treat them with the utmost empathy if we have a chance in hell of swaying their opinion. I know I would want the same.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 19
        Replying to @Aikanek1 @tmamone

        Yes, we can care about them. This doesn't mean we have to care what they think of us. If someone hates me for being a woman, an atheist, a liberal whatever, I cannot feel hurt be this coz I'm confident in being all those things. Can still try to help them.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      6. LoveThoseKnicks‏ @lovethoseknicks Jan 19
        Replying to @HPluckrose @Aikanek1 @tmamone

        You do realize that some people are very confident in views you oppose, have empathy for people like you, and don’t care what YOU think of them?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 19
        Replying to @lovethoseknicks @Aikanek1 @tmamone

        Yes, of course. I'm not claiming this is unique to me. I think it's near universal. That was my point.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. Aikanek‏ @Aikanek1 Jan 19
        Replying to @HPluckrose @lovethoseknicks @tmamone

        I believe we MUST care about what they think of us. How someone views you is highly dependent on how much they trust the information coming out of your mouth. The majority of my job as therapist is getting my students to see me in a trusting light, so beliefs can be altered.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 19
        Replying to @Aikanek1 @lovethoseknicks @tmamone

        You are missing the point. I cannot bring myself to feel ashamed of being a woman, a liberal or an atheist. Accusations of being any of these things cannot hurt me. I will seek to establish trust on other levels which don't require pretending not to be any of those.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      10. 1 more reply
      1. New conversation
      2. Solomon Grundy‏ @myusefulspare Jan 19
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Is there some overlap between a) and c)? As opposed to "people they don't want to impress", are they "people whose opinions do not matter to the speaker". The original implies a negative relationship with the speaker (to me), the proposed reads as neutral (to me).

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 19
        Replying to @myusefulspare

        The former was my meaning, yes. I don't think it's very common for people to be neutral on what others think of them. This is why public shaming is devastating even if you don't know 99.9% of the public that is shaming you.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Solomon Grundy‏ @myusefulspare Jan 19
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I agree. It is nerve wracking but I am relating to personal experience where I had a socially unpopular position among friends and acquaintences. I hoped friends would listen to what I said, didn't care about acquaintences. JBP and his "don't say things you know to be untrue"

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 19
        Replying to @myusefulspare

        We might be neutral on what people think of us on certain topics but this is what I mean by certain groups. I don't care if people who hate women, atheists, liberals etc hate me. I still care for public opinion generally.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Solomon Grundy‏ @myusefulspare Jan 19
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I understand. And that pressure of caring about public opinion can cause conformity, which is fine for social cohesion, Japanese proverb, "The nail which stands up is the which gets beaten down." It is sinister when it is manipulated to force adherence to an ideology.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. End of conversation

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