Caring what others think of us has formed us as a species. This is why we have what Jonathan Haidt called 'an inner lawyer, rather than an inner scientist', experience being wrong as so embarrassing and have to work so hard against confirmation bias.
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This is why public shaming is such an awful experience. It really cannot be diminished because its affects are psychological rather than physical. For many, getting seriously injured in their body is preferable to being seriously injured in their reputation. The former heals.
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I question the close cohabitation of the terms "neurologically atypical" and "mentally ill" in the above comment.
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It is simply true that both of those things can cause a lack of concern for the opinions of others.
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True, but I imagine you get my meaning.
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I think you might be implying that saying two things can both cause the same symptom is to imply that they are similar things but this is not the case at all.
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That's cool. Glad for the clarity. I'm passionate about celebrating atypical neurology, and have too often seen it labelled "mental illness".
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:) That is why there is an 'or' between them.
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I guess it was the three categories, with these two items cohabited one of them. I was left thinking, in what way do they belong in the same category, as opposed to being in the others, or separate? In what way are they the same?
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They are the things that can make people genuinely not care what others think about them. Things which affect typical human sociality. Those people are telling the truth, not lying or speaking only in a particular context.
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#1 is definitely true for me. I care if I say something derogatory towards marginalized people, but I don’t care if I upset an MRA for hurting his feelings.
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Me too. People often worry that I am upset by a barrage of abuse from extremists of various kinds but I am not. Losing the good opinion of someone who values human rights, gender/racial/LGBT equality, universal liberalism is very painful tho.
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I mean shouldn't we care about groups we dislike. I mean from my view the are ideologically possessed or just wrong in their beliefs. We should treat them with the utmost empathy if we have a chance in hell of swaying their opinion. I know I would want the same.
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Yes, we can care about them. This doesn't mean we have to care what they think of us. If someone hates me for being a woman, an atheist, a liberal whatever, I cannot feel hurt be this coz I'm confident in being all those things. Can still try to help them.
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You do realize that some people are very confident in views you oppose, have empathy for people like you, and don’t care what YOU think of them?
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Yes, of course. I'm not claiming this is unique to me. I think it's near universal. That was my point.
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I believe we MUST care about what they think of us. How someone views you is highly dependent on how much they trust the information coming out of your mouth. The majority of my job as therapist is getting my students to see me in a trusting light, so beliefs can be altered.
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You are missing the point. I cannot bring myself to feel ashamed of being a woman, a liberal or an atheist. Accusations of being any of these things cannot hurt me. I will seek to establish trust on other levels which don't require pretending not to be any of those.
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Is there some overlap between a) and c)? As opposed to "people they don't want to impress", are they "people whose opinions do not matter to the speaker". The original implies a negative relationship with the speaker (to me), the proposed reads as neutral (to me).
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The former was my meaning, yes. I don't think it's very common for people to be neutral on what others think of them. This is why public shaming is devastating even if you don't know 99.9% of the public that is shaming you.
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I agree. It is nerve wracking but I am relating to personal experience where I had a socially unpopular position among friends and acquaintences. I hoped friends would listen to what I said, didn't care about acquaintences. JBP and his "don't say things you know to be untrue"
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We might be neutral on what people think of us on certain topics but this is what I mean by certain groups. I don't care if people who hate women, atheists, liberals etc hate me. I still care for public opinion generally.
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I understand. And that pressure of caring about public opinion can cause conformity, which is fine for social cohesion, Japanese proverb, "The nail which stands up is the which gets beaten down." It is sinister when it is manipulated to force adherence to an ideology.
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