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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 17

    You've read Maps of Meaning where he sets out his view of objective truth & the affective reality of the mythic world? How does this differ from postmodernism?pic.twitter.com/WNggI6L8kP

    5:48 PM - 17 Jan 2018
    • 1 Retweet
    • 7 Likes
    • Francisco Boni Dick Silhouette Mr. Ray CollaboRational Doc Brahim Claire Voltaire Telos
    8 replies 1 retweet 7 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 17
        Replying to @HPluckrose @Atticus_Amber and

        He does differ from it because he values metanarratives but knowledge and truth are still regarded as socially constructed by discourse and rooted in feelings & lived experience. This is why people say his epistemology mirrors that of postmodernism.

        3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      3. Logos‏ @speakthelogos Jan 17
        Replying to @HPluckrose @Atticus_Amber and

        Well, of course lived experience is one of the roots of truth. It's simply a form of Empiricism. Scientists' research is done as a subset of lived experience. Does that invalidate their work?

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 17
        Replying to @speakthelogos @Atticus_Amber and

        No, it's not. They do not talk about how they experience the results of experiments. They show the results. I need to go to bed. Enough now.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Logos‏ @speakthelogos Jan 17
        Replying to @HPluckrose @Atticus_Amber and

        That's not true at all. They observe the results. Observation is a lived experience. If you never had the lived experience of observing an apple fall, you wouldn't be able to reason about theories and then conduct experiments with more dropped apples.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 17
        Replying to @speakthelogos @Atticus_Amber and

        No, observation is not what is meant by lived experience. This is a much deeper thing which JPB refers to in terms of archetypes.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      7. Logos‏ @speakthelogos Jan 17
        Replying to @HPluckrose @Atticus_Amber and

        Well sure it goes deeper, but we're not at that level. We'd have to work up to it. Peterson's views are reducible to a rationalist, materialist, scientific, empiricist definition. I sincerely mean that, because I come from that camp. But it takes a bit to lay that out.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      8. Logos‏ @speakthelogos Jan 17
        Replying to @speakthelogos @HPluckrose and

        Archetypes are observable, because we see them repeatedly in cultures across time. What they are, like metaphysically, is tough to define. But it's hard to say what a number is metaphysically as well. But numbers are enormously useful, so we use them. Archetypes are similar.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      9. Logos‏ @speakthelogos Jan 17
        Replying to @speakthelogos @HPluckrose and

        That's where a touch of the Pragmatism comes in. No one knows what the hell math is - but we accept that it's useful and true and beautiful for whatever reason. But it's certainly not "false" just because it isn't composed of baryonic matter.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      10. 4 more replies
      1. New conversation
      2. Logos‏ @speakthelogos Jan 17
        Replying to @HPluckrose @Atticus_Amber and

        Because acknowledging that there are infinite potential interpretations of the world is not the same as saying they are all valid - he explicitly believes the opposite.

        3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Logos‏ @speakthelogos Jan 17
        Replying to @speakthelogos @HPluckrose and

        And claiming that there are eternal patterns that exist regardless of material substrate is the exact opposite of postmodernism as well - eternal, enduring, objective truths are as far way from postmodernism as you can get.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Logos‏ @speakthelogos Jan 17
        Replying to @speakthelogos @HPluckrose and

        And the concept of eternal, enduring, divorced-from-the-material truths is not controversial when we refer to, say, mathematical patterns.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 17
        Replying to @speakthelogos @Atticus_Amber and

        Because it is rooted in empiricism,

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Logos‏ @speakthelogos Jan 17
        Replying to @HPluckrose @Atticus_Amber and

        No, no it's not. Not even close. There's more mathematics with zero physical analogue than there is math that resembles the physical world.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 17
        Replying to @speakthelogos @Atticus_Amber and

        I'm not qualified to have this argument with you. @Goddoesnt is but he's probably sick of it too.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. Logos‏ @speakthelogos Jan 17
        Replying to @HPluckrose @Atticus_Amber and

        I'm sorry you're sick of it. Some people here are making bad arguments. Would love to discuss in a neutral, productive way. But feel free to check out the philosophy beyond math - it's extremely platonic in many respects.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 17
        Replying to @speakthelogos @Atticus_Amber and

        No. No to mathematical Platonism,

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      10. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Kareem Sabri‏ @kareem_sabri Jan 17
        Replying to @HPluckrose @Atticus_Amber and

        I don’t see what he says in that passage that’s incorrect. Myths are affective realities in the minds of those who believe them. The difference between PoMo and that idea, as far I can tell, is that PoMo elevates all myths to the level of objective truth, and all other myths. /1

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 17
        Replying to @kareem_sabri @Atticus_Amber and

        No, it believes that too.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. Francisco Boni‏ @boni_bo Feb 24
        Replying to @HPluckrose @EliVieira and

        pic.twitter.com/lc6phxstnH

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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