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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 16

      Helen Pluckrose Retweeted

      Well, no. Then you'd have to keep getting married and divorced unless you only wanted to have sex with one person for your entire life. I think most women would prefer unwanted advances that having that expectation on them. You know, because of the wanted ones. https://twitter.com/YeyoZa/status/953266858337144832 …

      Helen Pluckrose added,

      This Tweet is unavailable.
      11 replies 3 retweets 32 likes
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    2. Irene Ogrizek‏ @ireneogrizek Jan 17
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Perhaps I am a throw-back, but I remember learning strategies to protect myself from assault--be overtly aggressive, urinate in your clothes, stomp on a man's foot, near the ankle, etc. /4

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 17
      Replying to @ireneogrizek

      Yes, quite. I think this is different subject though.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Irene Ogrizek‏ @ireneogrizek Jan 17
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      The reference to an earlier era is what I was referring to, Helen. It seems a major point in her article.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 17
      Replying to @ireneogrizek

      Yes. I'm not criticising that tho. I'm criticising the idea that because premarital sex is normal, women feel they have to explain turning down offers of it. I don't think they do. Consent is much bigger now.

      6:10 AM - 17 Jan 2018
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 17
          Replying to @HPluckrose @ireneogrizek

          It's harder to say 'No, because I don't believe in premarital sex' now but still easy to say 'No, I don't want to.' To a casual offer. In a relationship, it could be harder. But people have to take responsibility for that not being acceptable to most ppl & find like-minded ppl.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Irene Ogrizek‏ @ireneogrizek Jan 17
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Okay. I think we're agreeing more than I thought. The article for me held several intriguing ideas.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Irene Ogrizek‏ @ireneogrizek Jan 17
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Disagree there. I hear young women grappling with the "turning down" part a lot. The perceived shortage of options is a problem. Young women struggle to say no. It's bizarre, but reflects a larger movement not to teach them, IMO, which is ideological: men should just change.

          3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 17
          Replying to @ireneogrizek

          They can deal with it. Learning to say 'no' to things we don't want to do is important. This article argues they shouldn't be taught but that men should just assume they don't want to too when it says that was the case when the default was 'no.'

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 17
          Replying to @HPluckrose @ireneogrizek

          It's another form of removing agency from women by claiming they just shouldn't have to deal with it in the first place. Why do you think we're more worried about young women struggling to say no to sex but not about them struggling to say no to lunch?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 17
          Replying to @HPluckrose @ireneogrizek

          I think it's because there is a moralistic emphasis on sex that there isn't on lunch and to a large extent this is innate but we don't need to validate it. Whatever it is you really don't want to do, have the confidence to decline it.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 17
          Replying to @HPluckrose @ireneogrizek

          Or if you don't really mind that much and think the social networking benefits outweigh the costs, have the tedious lunch or uninspiring sex and don't let anyone else tell you you can make that decision for the former but not the latter.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Irene Ogrizek‏ @ireneogrizek Jan 17
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          I didn't like the lunch comparison--it's a bad one. But there's a definite wariness, among feminists, to avoid anything that borders on the conservative. Advising young women to just not go back to the man's apartment is seen as treachery/slut shaming when it's a good strategy.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        8. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 17
          Replying to @ireneogrizek

          Why do you think so? She obviously saw it that way and so do I. I agree with the second bit but it wasn't what I was disagreeing with.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Irene Ogrizek‏ @ireneogrizek Jan 17
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          The lunch comparison? Perhaps because I am not terribly sociable and have always been able to say no to lunches I don't want. Same with a lot of women I know. The sexual pressure feels far more powerful and difficult to contend with.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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