Well, no. Then you'd have to keep getting married and divorced unless you only wanted to have sex with one person for your entire life. I think most women would prefer unwanted advances that having that expectation on them. You know, because of the wanted ones. https://twitter.com/YeyoZa/status/953266858337144832 …
Yes. I'm not criticising that tho. I'm criticising the idea that because premarital sex is normal, women feel they have to explain turning down offers of it. I don't think they do. Consent is much bigger now.
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It's harder to say 'No, because I don't believe in premarital sex' now but still easy to say 'No, I don't want to.' To a casual offer. In a relationship, it could be harder. But people have to take responsibility for that not being acceptable to most ppl & find like-minded ppl.
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Okay. I think we're agreeing more than I thought. The article for me held several intriguing ideas.
End of conversation
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Disagree there. I hear young women grappling with the "turning down" part a lot. The perceived shortage of options is a problem. Young women struggle to say no. It's bizarre, but reflects a larger movement not to teach them, IMO, which is ideological: men should just change.
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They can deal with it. Learning to say 'no' to things we don't want to do is important. This article argues they shouldn't be taught but that men should just assume they don't want to too when it says that was the case when the default was 'no.'
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It's another form of removing agency from women by claiming they just shouldn't have to deal with it in the first place. Why do you think we're more worried about young women struggling to say no to sex but not about them struggling to say no to lunch?
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I think it's because there is a moralistic emphasis on sex that there isn't on lunch and to a large extent this is innate but we don't need to validate it. Whatever it is you really don't want to do, have the confidence to decline it.
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Or if you don't really mind that much and think the social networking benefits outweigh the costs, have the tedious lunch or uninspiring sex and don't let anyone else tell you you can make that decision for the former but not the latter.
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I didn't like the lunch comparison--it's a bad one. But there's a definite wariness, among feminists, to avoid anything that borders on the conservative. Advising young women to just not go back to the man's apartment is seen as treachery/slut shaming when it's a good strategy.
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Why do you think so? She obviously saw it that way and so do I. I agree with the second bit but it wasn't what I was disagreeing with.
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The lunch comparison? Perhaps because I am not terribly sociable and have always been able to say no to lunches I don't want. Same with a lot of women I know. The sexual pressure feels far more powerful and difficult to contend with.
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