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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 8

    Have just been trying to think about the difference between 'trying to persuade by argument' and 'telling people what to think' and I think it comes down mostly to attitude.

    3:20 AM - 8 Jan 2018
    • 18 Likes
    • (((Nadim Jasani))) J.P. McCarthy Benedict White Saloni 🎃 Mike Megachurch of Evil Opinions Lorens Eilert Just a Humanist
    9 replies 0 retweets 18 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 8

        I am often accused of telling people what to think, do, feel when I see myself as making an argument for something being the most reasonable and/or ethical thing to do. Usually, this is objected to on the grounds that I am the wrong demographic to be making said argument.

        3 replies 1 retweet 13 likes
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      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 8

        I consider this an unreasonable objection but yesterday, I accused someone of telling me what to think and do. This was because he was not making any kind of argument but simply telling me that the correct thing for me to do was not have my own opinions but amplify others.

        4 replies 1 retweet 6 likes
        Show this thread
      4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 8

        Both times using the words 'telling people what to think' indicated an objection to perceived presumption and authoritarianism. But he perceived me to be abusing a privileged status which gives me authority whilst I saw him as trying to stifle discussion.

        1 reply 1 retweet 5 likes
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      5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jan 8

        It comes down to 'you don't have the right' & the difference depends on whether you see society as constructed by discourses which need to be rebalanced to prioritise certain 'voices' or if you see it as driven by 'arguments' and there being a need for better ones to dominate.

        0 replies 0 retweets 13 likes
        Show this thread
      6. End of conversation
      1. Saloni  🎃‏ @salonium Jan 8
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I think the difference is about whether you think they should be punished (in whatever way) for not agreeing with you.

        0 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
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      1. OGB #FBPE‏ @OlGingerBastard Jan 8
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        'trying to persuade by argument' is showing a pathway, 'telling people what to think' is pushing them down said pathway

        0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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      1. Bantu Rhino - The People's Rhino‏ @Bantu_Rhino Jan 8
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        1/2 I'd say you need to back up a step. Before you can persuade you need to understand, and if you're taking the time to understand someones current position, then you are demonstrating sincerity. It's that sincerity that is so key in difficult conversations.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. David Mair‏ @DavidMair4 Jan 8
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        ethos + pathos + logos ?

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Anne  🙊 🙈 🙉‏ @picaae Jan 8
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        pic.twitter.com/CB9I7kMfKP

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Juriaan Romijn‏ @jfromijn_nl Jan 8
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        As had been alluded to by others, the difference between the 2 is free will. In 'trying to persuade by argument' you have a choice to either do/think as the arguer does or not but when someone tell you what to think, you do not.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. Bantu Rhino - The People's Rhino‏ @Bantu_Rhino Jan 8
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        2/2 Beyond that its how you present arguments (attitude, as you called it), but if you haven't established good faith by understanding the person you're attempting to persuade, then most efforts will be seen as "telling people what to think".

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      1. Morvjn‏ @morvjn Jan 8
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I disagree. 'Persuade by arguments' starts by making people question their current beliefs. 'telling people what to think' doesn't.

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