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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 9 Dec 2017

    Those of us who consider ourselves liberal in the broadest sense of favouring equal rights, freedoms & opportunities must not allow social progress to be associated with the far-left any more than we should allow freedom of speech to be associated with the far-right.

    9:16 AM - 9 Dec 2017
    • 60 Retweets
    • 170 Likes
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    11 replies 60 retweets 170 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Steven‏ @vampireslugger 9 Dec 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose @ianpacemain

        'Progress' is a fundamentally left-wing idea

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 9 Dec 2017
        Replying to @vampireslugger @ianpacemain

        It's liberal. The centre-right often wants things to get better too. I am left bug not far-left. I don't seek revolution but steady progress of the kind we've seen in the last 50 years.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      4. Steven‏ @vampireslugger 9 Dec 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose @ianpacemain

        Well liberalism was left wing until the 20th century. Historically, most conservatives would have found the idea of 'social progress' anathema. It implies a departure from social order and hierachy, religion, tradition etc. Your position is left-wing, which is fine

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Steven‏ @vampireslugger 9 Dec 2017
        Replying to @vampireslugger @HPluckrose @ianpacemain

        but I don't think it's even centrist. It's definitely, clearly Left

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 9 Dec 2017
        Replying to @vampireslugger @ianpacemain

        Don't think what is even centrist? Social progress? Maybe tho I'm pleased to know many conservatives to supported same sex marriage & the right to die. But my point was that liberals can't let the far-left loons own this concept.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 9 Dec 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose @vampireslugger @ianpacemain

        Enlightenment liberals, classical liberals, universal liberals also want social progress. This is not owned by radical lefties.

        2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
      8. Steven‏ @vampireslugger 9 Dec 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose @ianpacemain

        Those liberals were once radicals

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 9 Dec 2017
        Replying to @vampireslugger @ianpacemain

        I'm not sure what you're arguing with. I'm saying there is a liberal left and a radical left now and the radicals don't own the aim for social progress. This is inherent in liberalism.

        2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      10. 6 more replies
      1. New conversation
      2. Erik Vergeer‏ @Enrikr 9 Dec 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I understand you don't want the hate speech from the right, but why don't you want to have even more social progress from the left?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 9 Dec 2017
        Replying to @Enrikr

        Huh? I think you've misunderstood my point. I don't want it believed that a support for freedom of speech is support for the far-right or that a belief in social progress indicates supporting far-leftist identity politics.

        0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Helen Wilson‏ @premodernism 9 Dec 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Why is freedom of speech associated with the far right? Far right govs have always been hostile to it...

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 9 Dec 2017
        Replying to @premodernism

        Because people are stupid. Saying Nazis shouldn't be punched now means being pro-Nazi. Defending FoS for conservatives or even the wrong kind of centrist or liberal is liable to get you called a patriarchal, white supremacist, alt-right etc. And the real deal has seized on this.

        2 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
      4. 1 more reply
      1. New conversation
      2.  🐸not 🐸 AliRadicali‏ @Banned_Ali 9 Dec 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        It's the far left (and the opportunistic centrist establishment) associating free speech with the right.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 9 Dec 2017
        Replying to @Banned_Ali

        Yes.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego 9 Dec 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Damned far-centrists. Ruining all our divisiveness! 😉

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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      1. (((Edwin Moore)))‏ @GlasgowAlbum 9 Dec 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        The widespread belief in Eugenics within the mid 20th century left disproves that anyway -https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/feb/17/eugenics-skeleton-rattles-loudest-closet-left …

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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      1. Stevie‏ @stevie_weevy 9 Dec 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose @gregstevens

        good luck with pursuing paper freedoms and rights while real economics smashes people's lives apart. Rights are important, but as part of dealing with economic realities of power and wealth and how they are distributed unfairly and inefficiently in society. :)

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Prez Cannady‏ @prezcannady 10 Dec 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I wouldn’t consider valuing equality in rights, freedoms, and opportunity to be a broad, let alone the broadest, embrace of liberalism. Breed enough serfs and you’ll approach maximum equality real quick. This “liberty is a scarce resource” approach is for the birds.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. Aurelian of Rome‏ @AurelianofRome 10 Dec 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose @M_Methuselah

        Then it’s time for those who would revivify the term “liberal” to craft two thick new borders. Draw one border around negative rights and another around positive rights.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Aurelian of Rome‏ @AurelianofRome 10 Dec 2017
        Replying to @AurelianofRome @HPluckrose @M_Methuselah

        Once this is done, you’ll need to police yourselves and others very carefully. What you’ll do is jealously guard the borders of negative liberty as your chief duty, being careful to fight off any who would centralize power in the state in order to encroach on these liberties.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Aurelian of Rome‏ @AurelianofRome 10 Dec 2017
        Replying to @AurelianofRome @HPluckrose @M_Methuselah

        If you do this, then you have a ready-made tool to reel in people from both the Right and the Left.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Aurelian of Rome‏ @AurelianofRome 10 Dec 2017
        Replying to @AurelianofRome @HPluckrose @M_Methuselah

        To the Right, you offer them thick borders, which brings structure, specificity, order, hierarchy, and standards of certainty. This helps them keep chaos at bay, but also transforms them into jealous guards of liberty. Framing it this way appeals to their nature.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Aurelian of Rome‏ @AurelianofRome 10 Dec 2017
        Replying to @AurelianofRome @HPluckrose @M_Methuselah

        To the Left, you offer them a community of free individuals which works to combat oppression by tearing down anyone who would trample the rights of the underprivileged. This helps them keep order from stifling liberty. Framing it this way appeals to their nature.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Aurelian of Rome‏ @AurelianofRome 10 Dec 2017
        Replying to @AurelianofRome @HPluckrose @M_Methuselah

        I never see anyone framing it this way. Ever. I never see anyone talking about negative rights or positive rights. People just chatter about “rights” as a general concept. This dampens any attempt to broadly appeal to the entire spectrum.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. End of conversation

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