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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. KanStaandPijpen‏ @KanStaandPijpen 26 Nov 2017
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      It makes sex more difficult for some men, and less successful for a good number more. I think a better question would be what reasons we find valid to circumcise.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 26 Nov 2017
      Replying to @KanStaandPijpen

      But then these men would have fewer offspring and foreskins would recede surely? Why would there be skin which made procreation harder?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. KanStaandPijpen‏ @KanStaandPijpen 26 Nov 2017
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Because evolution is a lot more messy than that. Foreskin comes from the much older sheath of quadrupeds, and evolution doesn't make big jumps. So if intermediate steps toward no-4skin don't improve matters, the chasm is never bridged.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 26 Nov 2017
      Replying to @KanStaandPijpen

      And wouldn't it? Improve matters? If foreskin is a problem for some and not for others, there's clearly variation which should be subject to natural selection, no?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. KanStaandPijpen‏ @KanStaandPijpen 26 Nov 2017
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Via which gradual path should foreskin disappear? If I'm not mistaken, it's formed together with vital parts of the penis in embryo. Beneficial variations in foreskin would therefore be highly likely to cause detrimental changes in the other parts.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 26 Nov 2017
      Replying to @KanStaandPijpen

      The same as with other vestigial parts. I've just been reading and apparently, rather than shrinking, evolution made it grow. Considered beneficial for reproduction: http://www.historyofcircumcision.net/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=15 …

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. KanStaandPijpen‏ @KanStaandPijpen 26 Nov 2017
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      That's philosophy, not science. There is no evidence that circumcised men reproduce any worse, so needed it is not. On the other hand, that we don't need something is no indication removal is *necessary*.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 26 Nov 2017
      Replying to @KanStaandPijpen

      Well, no. We don't need our little toes either and they are actually going and our foreskins might be too now we have underwear. No need to cut either off tho.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 26 Nov 2017
      Replying to @HPluckrose @KanStaandPijpen

      But evolution isn't philosophy. There is much evidence that human foreskins grew longer and more complex than that of the other apes and there must have been some benefit to this even if there isn't one now (there might be).

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. KanStaandPijpen‏ @KanStaandPijpen 26 Nov 2017
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Observation that human foreskins are pretty large doesn't mean they're pretty useful. They would be modified exactly *because* something about them is in the way.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 26 Nov 2017
      Replying to @KanStaandPijpen

      Huh?

      1:53 PM - 26 Nov 2017
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. KanStaandPijpen‏ @KanStaandPijpen 26 Nov 2017
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Only stuff that gets in the way of reproduction [by killing the bearer of the gene, or making him unlikely to reproduce] gets changed by natural selection. Things that are fine the way they are remain static for the same reason.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 26 Nov 2017
          Replying to @KanStaandPijpen

          Yes, I know. This is evolution 101. Although it only needs a slight advantage/disadvantage to make a difference over evolutionary time. The foreskin got bigger and more complex in humans. There must have been some reason for this.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. KanStaandPijpen‏ @KanStaandPijpen 26 Nov 2017
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Evolution is way too messy for small advantages to have much of an impact. Otherwise our spines wouldn't be such a fucking mess.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 26 Nov 2017
          Replying to @KanStaandPijpen

          No, it's not. This is how we refine where variation exists and it does with foreskins. They're not like spines trying to cope with us standing up.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. KanStaandPijpen‏ @KanStaandPijpen 26 Nov 2017
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Then explain why our foreskins would adapt to small advantages over the long run, whereas our spines are still ill-adapted to bipedal stance.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 26 Nov 2017
          Replying to @KanStaandPijpen

          Because variation in foreskin length exists enabling them to grow longer or shorter but no human had a spine suited to bepedalism so it had to adapt imperfectly.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 26 Nov 2017
          Replying to @HPluckrose @KanStaandPijpen

          Have a look at the info I sent. We had foreskins way before we were human and they always served the same function. Changes in them to become longer & more complex are small but driven by something. Our spines did not serve the function they do now. We move completely differently

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. KanStaandPijpen‏ @KanStaandPijpen 26 Nov 2017
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          I read it. The spine should then have a much greater impetus in changing than a foreskin that was functional as-is, right?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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