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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 23 Nov 2017

    No-one is constrained by other people having a sense of their own gender identity & no-one is invalidated by other people disbelieving in their gender identity.

    2:38 AM - 23 Nov 2017
    • 30 Retweets
    • 101 Likes
    • ∴ Nathan Jacobson Esther Piscore Volstrodomus Chels Famo BarlowD Regina🎃 Старуха Извергиль Jeff Ken P
    15 replies 30 retweets 101 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. MJ fan account 1984‏ @fronxer 23 Nov 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        That depends on the power distribution associated with those positions.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 23 Nov 2017
        Replying to @fronxer

        If power is used to force others to, eg, use pronouns they don't believe in, yes, but this is what I am getting at. It is actions that harm, not individuals own beliefs about gender.

        1 reply 1 retweet 7 likes
      4. MJ fan account 1984‏ @fronxer 23 Nov 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I wonder if "beliefs" that are completely decoupled from actions (including thinking and speaking) are anything describable/detectable/existing at all.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 23 Nov 2017
        Replying to @fronxer

        I'm not including thinking and speaking. You can think & say that your gender is non-binary. Person I'm speaking to now would say you constrain her within gender stereotypes this way. She's wrong & can deal with it.

        0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
      6. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Aaron Gross‏ @Rongwrong_ 23 Nov 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        The second part is a little too glib. If everyone started treating you as a man—addressing you as "sir", saying your dress was inappropriate, etc—it might not "invalidate" you but it could make it hard for you to maintain your subjective identity as a woman.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 23 Nov 2017
        Replying to @Rongwrong_

        If if is targeted at people, yes.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Aaron Gross‏ @Rongwrong_ 23 Nov 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Untargeted as well. If the culture were such that everyone with initials HP is a man, no matter what their biology or subjective identity, the effect might be even stronger than if you were personally targeted.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 23 Nov 2017
        Replying to @Rongwrong_

        Then don't target people with those initials! My argument is for leaving people alone.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Twenty-Urteen‏ @UrQuanKin 24 Nov 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose @MyKeyMoonShine

        Except when saying that you believe in the gender binary ends you up with a fine or prison time. That's pretty constraining

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 24 Nov 2017
        Replying to @UrQuanKin @MyKeyMoonShine

        That's my point about needing to let people believe & express their own views.

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Terry Aki  🎃 🕸️ 👻‏ @huckleterryfinn 23 Nov 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Got any recommendations on responses to the "trans women are women" mantra? Referring to biology never works and I end up feeling like I'm talking to Flat-Earthers.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 23 Nov 2017
        Replying to @huckleterryfinn

        Yep! https://areomagazine.com/2017/09/27/an-argument-for-a-liberal-and-rational-approach-to-transgender-rights-and-inclusion/ … Also, avoid talking about the definition of 'women', you'll just be talking past each other.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Lizzy‏ @lizlozlizloz 23 Nov 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        My concern is that that self declared gender identity *does* impact people. The sports, private female spaces. NB people choose women’s spaces more so as they’re afraid of going into male spaces.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 23 Nov 2017
        Replying to @lizlozlizloz

        That's my point tho & what we wrote about. The practical considerations need working out. People can have whatever ideas the want.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Lizzy‏ @lizlozlizloz 23 Nov 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Sure. I’m all for working out the practical solutions so everyone is happy.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Chris Corbett‏ @ChrisCorbett3 23 Nov 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        There seems to be a marked increase in the number of people claiming that their existence has been invalidated. I love a good paradox.

        4 replies 2 retweets 7 likes
      3. 1 more reply
      1. Eytan L‏ @SnarkyNomad 23 Nov 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose @CathyYoung63

        It’s almost like the validation of random strangers isn’t worth worrying about.

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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      1. The Independent Whig‏ @TheWhig 24 Nov 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        That’s nice in a John Lennon “Imagine” sort of way. But when you make laws that say it’s OK for a 40 year old man to use the same bathroom at the same time as a ten year old girl you’ve crossed the line between pleasant sounding idealism and a disaster waiting to happen.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Benjamin Stephenson‏ @Pathdom 23 Nov 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Except that disbelieving someone's gender identity makes you Hitler...

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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