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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Rootless [But Very Stable] Cosmopolitan‏ @BrianBuchbinder 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @ThomasFriedman_ @HPluckrose @Gil_Ant

      You can accept that people have "notions" of truth: "The world is full of demi-gods and fairies" without those notions being empirically true.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Thomas Friedman‏ @ThomasFriedman_ 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @BrianBuchbinder @HPluckrose @Gil_Ant

      That's not what we're talking about. We're taking about the agreement of what is true. Harris cannot agree that there is non-empirical truth then say non-empirical truth has no basis in reality.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @ThomasFriedman_ @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

      Simply fixed because he wouldn't call it 'truth'. He'd say there are non-substantiated beliefs and there are truths. The postmodernists conflate these into different kinds of truths and ways of knowing & so does Peterson. It's not helpful.

      3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Thomas Friedman‏ @ThomasFriedman_ 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @HPluckrose @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

      I know he wouldnt call it truth, I have maintained that the entire time. A strict empiricist who rejects intangible truth would call it "non-substantiated beliefs". Peterson would agree it is not scientific fact but truth for being; the truth morality.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @ThomasFriedman_ @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

      Hence truth stops being objective and criticisms that Peterson denies the objectivity of truth in the same way as postmodernists are substantiated.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Thomas Friedman‏ @ThomasFriedman_ 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @HPluckrose @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

      He does not DENY objective fact. That immediately makes him NOT a postmodernist. He accepts science wholeheartedly and defends it all the time. He also accepts that some truths are not empirical but embedded in ideas, in stories, in literature, etc.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @ThomasFriedman_ @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

      Helen Pluckrose Retweeted Helen Pluckrose

      Yes, he does. This doesn't make sense.https://twitter.com/HPluckrose/status/929420602687016961 …

      Helen Pluckrose added,

      Helen Pluckrose @HPluckrose
      No, no, no. You cannot reasonably say 'I believe in objective truth and also that subjective, erroneous things can be true.' You can muck about with the word 'truth' until you give the impression this makes sense but, in fact, it does not.
      Show this thread
      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Thomas Friedman‏ @ThomasFriedman_ 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @HPluckrose @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

      Ironically your claim that he rejects objective truth is objectively false.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @ThomasFriedman_ @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

      I can't break this down any more. You mean that he accepts objective truths among other truths. I say that this means what he considers true is not always objective and neither is that his criteria. This is the criticism of him & of postmodernists.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Thomas Friedman‏ @ThomasFriedman_ 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @HPluckrose @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

      The acceptance of objective fact derived from empiricism and the acceptance of truths that exist outside of that are not incompatible. He's not going to argue for Flat Earth because of some myth that says so. He does not argue AGAINST science, he goes where it cannot.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @ThomasFriedman_ @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

      We are saying the same thing but you think this means he is a defender of objective truth because some of the truths he accepts are objective. I say he is not because his definition of truth includes things which are not objectively true.

      11:07 AM - 11 Nov 2017
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Thomas Friedman‏ @ThomasFriedman_ 11 Nov 2017
          Replying to @HPluckrose @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

          He's a defender of science. In the USSR, pretty much any academic or scientist whose study went against the concepts of equality were arrested and probably gulaged. He sees that sort of behavior manifesting in the far left and wants to end it.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 11 Nov 2017
          Replying to @ThomasFriedman_ @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

          To a certain extent and yet we saw that he disagreed that the truth of square numbers would be scientifically established rather than by whether a belief about it aided survival.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Thomas Friedman‏ @ThomasFriedman_ 11 Nov 2017
          Replying to @HPluckrose @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

          You cannot cling to some obscure snippet of an interview completely divorced from context like this. Your narrative of his beliefs is wrong.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. End of conversation

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