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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Rootless [But Very Stable] Cosmopolitan‏ @BrianBuchbinder 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @ThomasFriedman_ @HPluckrose @Gil_Ant

      You can accept that people have "notions" of truth: "The world is full of demi-gods and fairies" without those notions being empirically true.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Thomas Friedman‏ @ThomasFriedman_ 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @BrianBuchbinder @HPluckrose @Gil_Ant

      That's not what we're talking about. We're taking about the agreement of what is true. Harris cannot agree that there is non-empirical truth then say non-empirical truth has no basis in reality.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @ThomasFriedman_ @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

      Simply fixed because he wouldn't call it 'truth'. He'd say there are non-substantiated beliefs and there are truths. The postmodernists conflate these into different kinds of truths and ways of knowing & so does Peterson. It's not helpful.

      3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Thomas Friedman‏ @ThomasFriedman_ 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @HPluckrose @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

      I know he wouldnt call it truth, I have maintained that the entire time. A strict empiricist who rejects intangible truth would call it "non-substantiated beliefs". Peterson would agree it is not scientific fact but truth for being; the truth morality.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @ThomasFriedman_ @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

      Hence truth stops being objective and criticisms that Peterson denies the objectivity of truth in the same way as postmodernists are substantiated.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Thomas Friedman‏ @ThomasFriedman_ 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @HPluckrose @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

      He does not DENY objective fact. That immediately makes him NOT a postmodernist. He accepts science wholeheartedly and defends it all the time. He also accepts that some truths are not empirical but embedded in ideas, in stories, in literature, etc.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @ThomasFriedman_ @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

      Helen Pluckrose Retweeted Helen Pluckrose

      Yes, he does. This doesn't make sense.https://twitter.com/HPluckrose/status/929420602687016961 …

      Helen Pluckrose added,

      Helen Pluckrose @HPluckrose
      No, no, no. You cannot reasonably say 'I believe in objective truth and also that subjective, erroneous things can be true.' You can muck about with the word 'truth' until you give the impression this makes sense but, in fact, it does not.
      Show this thread
      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @HPluckrose @ThomasFriedman_ and

      If your understanding of truth includes things which are objectively true and things which are objectively false and things which are unknown to be true or false you are not a believer in objective truth in the sense in which it is meant.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @HPluckrose @ThomasFriedman_ and

      And neither are postmodernists. They also accept as true some things which are objective and some which are subjective narratives. Robert Eaglestone calls this 'the metaphysics of correspondence' & 'primordial truth.' The former is a subcategory.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Thomas Friedman‏ @ThomasFriedman_ 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @HPluckrose @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

      So you will then agree Peterson is indeed not a Postermodernist?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 11 Nov 2017
      Replying to @ThomasFriedman_ @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

      He's not a postmodernist, no. He just has the same rationale for subjective truth being constructed in narratives.

      11:02 AM - 11 Nov 2017
      • 1 Like
      • Rootless [But Very Stable] Cosmopolitan
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Thomas Friedman‏ @ThomasFriedman_ 11 Nov 2017
          Replying to @HPluckrose @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

          Morality is subjective truth, so again I think you just fail to understand the topic all together.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 11 Nov 2017
          Replying to @ThomasFriedman_ @BrianBuchbinder @Gil_Ant

          No, I don't fail to understand it. I disagree that this is truth. I know that people call all kinds of subjective stuff 'truth' and 'knowledge' & therefore they deny the objective nature of truth. Includes postmodernists & Prof Peterson.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 11 Nov 2017
          Replying to @HPluckrose @ThomasFriedman_ and

          This is the nub of the criticism. You may not like being called the denial of objective truth. Perhaps you could live with 'The denial that all forms of truth and knowledge are objective.' Either way, it is what both PoMos & JP are criticised for.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. End of conversation

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