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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 5 Jul 2017

    Someone is arguing that attraction to secondary sexual characteristics is essential to sexual orientation but not primary sexual ones.

    11:52 AM - 5 Jul 2017
    • 3 Retweets
    • 19 Likes
    • Godiva Mahoney Makoghouled the Spooky Regina🎃 Call It Like It is Dark Your Friendly Neighborhood Nihilist 🎃Freedom-of-Screech🦉 Bobson Dugnutt ❌ Luan Côrtes
    13 replies 3 retweets 19 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I have not been able to get a clear explanation of this. Does anyone else understand?

        9 replies 1 retweet 6 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        It seems likely that attraction to feminine/masculine appearance came about as a useful & fairly reliable indicator of mating potential?

        4 replies 2 retweets 11 likes
      4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Even tho some people have always been gay (probably), increasing the chances of successful reproduction must be what drove it?

        1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
      5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        In which case, it would be very unlikely that attraction did not also respond to primary sexual characteristics?

        2 replies 1 retweet 4 likes
      6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        But yes, no matter what the reasoning behind this, it does not justify policing other people's attractions for ideological/moral purposes.

        1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
      7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        The 'I don't have to justify my lack of sexual interest in you' rule is a good one.

        0 replies 1 retweet 20 likes
      8. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Anne  🙊 🙈 🙉‏ @picaae 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Are there not sexual orientations that would cover discrepancy in this? I am not up to date beyond hetero-, bi- and homosexual so much… >>

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @picaae @pica_ae

        There are certainly ppl who are attracted to masculinity or femininity in people with either genitalia. I'm 1 of them. Not sure it has name

        3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose @pica_ae

        But I'm unclear why it must only be this. I'm fairly sure it isn't. If someone attracted to a beautiful woman & then finds she has a penis..

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose @pica_ae

        ...could not attraction die for perfectly natural reasons to do with sexuality rather than transphobia?

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Anne  🙊 🙈 🙉‏ @picaae 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Of course. I find the entire thing very confusing and unclear myself.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      7. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Your Friendly Neighborhood Nihilist‏ @Maxtropolitan 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Is this someone saying that it's transphobic to be attracted to cis people of a particular gender, but not trans people of the same gender?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @Maxtropolitan

        Saying that they should consider the possibility.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Your Friendly Neighborhood Nihilist‏ @Maxtropolitan 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        (3/3) but does anyone have any business demanding that of others or condemning others for not doing that? Absolutely not.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Tamara Brouwer‏ @TamaraBrouwer1 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Hmm. I would say primairy influences secondary. Say that I fancy an attractive feminine woman. Find out she has a penis.

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Tamara Brouwer‏ @TamaraBrouwer1 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @TamaraBrouwer1 @HPluckrose

        Part of the feminine is gone, no? This would also kill part, if not all, of the attraction.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @TamaraBrouwer1

        I'd have thought so, yes.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Tamara Brouwer‏ @TamaraBrouwer1 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Then I don't understand the reasoning here. At all.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. 1 more reply
      1. New conversation
      2. Virgil Scott‏ @thevirg83 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        And I want to know how prevalent this thought is in the trans community. And do any F2M trans believe this? Or only M2F.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Iona Italia‏ @IonaItalia 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @thevirg83 @HPluckrose

        I've def heard some trans ppl disagree with this entire POV. Not sure how prevalent these opinions are but they're not universal among trans

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Virgil Scott‏ @thevirg83 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @IonaItalia @HPluckrose

        And I would like to know the % difference between M2F and F2M as far as this belief goes. Would be interesting to find out.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      5. Iona Italia‏ @IonaItalia 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @thevirg83 @HPluckrose

        I think I cd date a post-op trans man, but not until the technology improves. (I worked 4 a company that make penises 4 trans men - they r

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      6. Iona Italia‏ @IonaItalia 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @IonaItalia @thevirg83 @HPluckrose

        not v satisfactory yet & I think I'm not able to deal with that. The fact of being trans, tho, does not bother me & some are V handsome.

        3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      7. Virgil Scott‏ @thevirg83 5 Jul 2017
        Replying to @IonaItalia @HPluckrose

        My biggest problem with their line of reasoning is that it can end up backfiring. You can apply this same logic to gays and lesbians

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      8. End of conversation

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