No1s been able to give me example of patriarchy in the US w/out changing meaning to a)Men & women make different choices or b)assholes exist
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Ah, OK. So a "patriarchy" inaugurated by men and women working together (a la Handmaid's Tale) wouldn't count?
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Women can work to support patriarchal societies but not from a position of power within them or it isn't one.
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This isn't cut & dry. When Elizabeth I ruled, England still a patriarchy & rhetoric had to be spouted abt how she wasn't really a woman
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There can be some female figureheads but patriarchy can still exist 4 main part if the system still set up for men to be in charge of women
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eg In the 60s my mother cld vote but cldn't get mortgage or loan w/out male consent (guarantor) coz men still responsible for wives debts
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She didn't earn as much as men for same job coz explicitly assumed that man was breadwinner & women only worked for bit of extra cash.
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Right, exactly. So does that, for you, count as an indication (even if vestigial) of patriarchy? Genuine question - I have an open mind.
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That was patriarchy. It was enshrined in law. Women literally couldn't earn the same coz men expected to pay for family upkeep.
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I do think feminist claims of (a) patriarchy in modern west makes the notion almost meaningless. But I think there's a danger for those 1/2
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... of us sceptical of the claim in setting bar too high & pure for what would count as patriarchy. Interested in where it should be. 2/2
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Any area in which men can access power women can't & rule women. Sexist discrimination can exist too but if not law, not patriarchy
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So, there was a period when there were some discriminatory laws of that kind left over (most obviously, voting laws). Wd that count?
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Count in what way? As evidence we hadn't fully dismantled patriarchy? Yes.
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Yes, exactly. And I think that's what a lot of feminists mean when they use the word - that such vestiges as there are, in different ...
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... societies, are symptoms of *patriarchy* as distinct from *a* patriarchy. Much breath is wasted, I think, failing 2 see this distinction.
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They may or may not be being reasonable about this. Its very often liberal egalitarians they target not extreme social conservatives.
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