There's a fundamental flaw here & I think it comes down to two different ways of approaching the same problem with the same goals.
-
-
-
People who aim all animus at the other side & rationalise away failings on their own are trying to weaken opposition & strengthen selves.
-
People who focus more on the weaknesses in their own group & assume the problems of the other side are evident have the same aim.
-
But a different approach. They want to weaken the appeal of the 'other side' by making their own side more worthy of respect & support.
-
It's the difference between 'show them to be bad' and 'show ourselves to be good' as primary objective.
-
I admit to being in the latter category & not unbiased in weighing up these two approaches.
-
A day or two ago, I saw someone say to Matt Dillahunty (I think) that if he saw someone punching a Nazi, he wouldn't criticise them for it.
-
Because he wouldn't want to be thought sympathetic to the Nazi & the people whose rights you champion is revealing of your aims.
-
I have no intention of discussing the ethics of Nazi-punching any further. The arguments have all been made & if still not getting it...
-
But the thinking & motivations which underlie the conflict on this & so many other similar examples is particularly interesting.
-
A fatal disconnect. I cldn't have disagreed more with that person coz I think strengthening your own position is the most important thing.
-
Not in an 'insisting of absolute ideological purity' way but in addressing where reasonable, ethical people's confidence in you cld be lost.
-
I don't think it's enough to show the other side to be bad (especially if you're doing so dishonestly).Need to show your own side to be good
-
This might be due to my allegedly naive perception that most people want to be reasonable & ethical & to support what seems fair & right.
-
I think nearly everyone already knows that Nazism & fascism are morally wrong and most people know that sexism, racism & homophobia etc are
-
Therefore, more important to talk about best ways to tackle these than keep saying they are wrong (especially if you use the terms lightly)
End of conversation
New conversation -
-
-
U criticize those u believe are the only ones who can make a difference for good; it's like sharpening the tool u need to get the work done.
-
Agreed, but at some point need to shift from sharpening to cutting. We don't necessarily need ideological unity, as much as broad action
End of conversation
New conversation -
-
-
As an "own-sider", I look forward to reading (regardless of which way you come down on the issue).
Thanks. Twitter will use this to make your timeline better. UndoUndo
-
-
-
But it's a good thing they do or else no one would change their minds!
Thanks. Twitter will use this to make your timeline better. UndoUndo
-
Loading seems to be taking a while.
Twitter may be over capacity or experiencing a momentary hiccup. Try again or visit Twitter Status for more information.