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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 26

      Helen Pluckrose Retweeted

      This is why I reject the idea that parents own their children to the extent that those children do not have the rights of citizens. When parents abuse & endanger their children, the state must be able to take them away and protect them as British citizens with human rights. https://twitter.com/Legal_Equality/status/1055718997071605760 …

      Helen Pluckrose added,

      This Tweet is unavailable.
      14 replies 9 retweets 67 likes
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    2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 26

      I cannot accept that my rights are only protected because my parents decided not to beat me, mutilate me or take me to a religious war zone. I should have had the right to know that if they'd tried, my country would have recognised me as an individual with rights & protected me.

      4 replies 2 retweets 44 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 26

      I'm afraid I think the few people claiming children of British Muslims who take them to ISIS do not have the rights of British citizens are full of shit & wld instantly recognise the rights of a child of culturally Christian parents to be protected from equivalent parental abuse

      6 replies 2 retweets 28 likes
      Show this thread
    4. Kirsty Miller‏ @juscallmekirsty Oct 27
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Do you not think though that the notion of ‘citizenship’ should only apply to those who do not want to destroy the country they are citizens of? ...

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Kirsty Miller‏ @juscallmekirsty Oct 27
      Replying to @juscallmekirsty @HPluckrose

      I get your point re the children, but just because it’s not their fault who their parents are, does that mean that we should willingly let potential threats back into the country?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 27
      Replying to @juscallmekirsty

      Would you normally let kids keep their citizenship if they'd had an awful childhood and were more likely than kids with good parents to commit crime?

      1:30 AM - 27 Oct 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Kirsty Miller‏ @juscallmekirsty Oct 27
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          I know what you're saying, but I do feel like this is slightly different, because there is an ideological issue here: it's not just bad parenting, they (the parents) left the UK to join an organisation whose aim it is to destroy the UK...

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 27
          Replying to @juscallmekirsty

          And that isn't the kids' fault and they don't stop being British because their parents were traitors to it. We just don't punish kids for the crimes of their parents anymore even when it's treason because we've developed a liberal ethic of individual responsibility.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Kirsty Miller‏ @juscallmekirsty Oct 27
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Ultimately I think that this is the main issue - should we hold kids responsible for their parents behaviour, to which the answer is obviously no...

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Kirsty Miller‏ @juscallmekirsty Oct 27
          Replying to @juscallmekirsty @HPluckrose

          However, I wonder if the relevant question here is not 'should the kids be held responsible', to 'is allowing high risk people back into the UK too great a risk, given their parentage, their upbringing, and the society they've been brought up in...'?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 27
          Replying to @juscallmekirsty

          Answering questions pragmatically without recourse to ethics results in an unethical system. We can reduce risks to society in many ways by denying rights to certain people who present higher risks but doing so would result in an unjust society which does not value the individual

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 27
          Replying to @HPluckrose @juscallmekirsty

          "You were raised in a home in which sexual abuse of children was normal. We have to ask if you present too high a risk to children to have custody of yours or have any job working with children even though we have no evidence of you ever sexually abusing children."

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        8. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 27
          Replying to @HPluckrose @juscallmekirsty

          There's also another ethical consideration. And that is whether it is acceptable to refuse to take back British people who pose a risk of terrorism. What if another country said it would leave its terrorists in the UK coz it'd be too risky to their own country to have them back?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 27
          Replying to @HPluckrose @juscallmekirsty

          But that is a different issue. Once we start being pragmatic about which British citizens have rights and which don't based on what other people have done and not what they themselves have done, we can justify very unethical things. This would affect men & Muslims most right now.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. End of conversation

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