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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 26

    Helen Pluckrose Retweeted Areo

    Stephen Messenger certainly knows his moral foundations but I have always found his thesis that conservative morality is objectively superior because it draws on all moral foundations while liberals draw much more strongly on half somewhat akin to the naturalistic fallacy.https://twitter.com/AreoMagazine/status/1055897417839718401 …

    Helen Pluckrose added,

    Areo @AreoMagazine
    Stephen Messenger, @TheWhig, also finds much to admire, but he sees a neglected elephant in the room & presents an argument for a fuller application of Moral Foundations to its thesis. "What The Coddling of the American Mind Fails To Spell Out." https://areomagazine.com/2018/10/26/what-the-coddling-of-the-american-mind-fails-to-spell-out-book-review/ …
    Show this thread
    12:09 PM - 26 Oct 2018
    • 4 Retweets
    • 17 Likes
    • Evander Erik Norvind Centrist Independent EIC at Uniters.org Jes Timothy Roy Elias Bejany JJ John of Salisbury, d.1180 AD 🎃Freedom-of-Screech🦉
    4 replies 4 retweets 17 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 26

        The value of Moral Foundations theory, I have always thought, is that it enables an understanding of the moral intuitions of those on the other side of the divide and makes them harder to misunderstand as evil and provides assistance with making arguments that will convince.

        1 reply 0 retweets 10 likes
        Show this thread
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 26

        When it comes to those intuitions themselves tho, there are arguments to be made in favour of prioritising some over others, which ones & why. It is not a given that giving them all equal value is the way to maximise the best aspects of human morality in 21st century environments

        4 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
        Show this thread
      4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 26

        it could well be that the prioritising of care & reduction of harm foundation is actually more valuable than the sanctity/disgust foundation which seeks to avoid or ban things seen as disgusting even if that was very useful in preventing us from poisoning ourselves historically.

        5 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
        Show this thread
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. James Lindsay‏ @ConceptualJames Oct 26
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I think that thesis is wrong. I think liberals do them differently.

        3 replies 1 retweet 11 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 26
        Replying to @ConceptualJames

        It's increasingly begin to seem so with the whole purity thing, anyway.

        1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
      4. ConejoBlanco‏ @ConejoBlanco500 Oct 26
        Replying to @HPluckrose @ConceptualJames

        Purity thing?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 26
        Replying to @ConejoBlanco500 @ConceptualJames

        The moral foundation associated with sanctity & purity & banning the degrading & disgusting is supposed to be very much on the conservative side and underlie seemingly inexplicable moral stances against things like homosexuality which harms no-one. Personal disgust moralised.

        2 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
      6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 26
        Replying to @HPluckrose @ConejoBlanco500 @ConceptualJames

        However, we see a lot of purity demands and puritanism on the left at the moment too and expressions of disgust for certain views and behaviours which aren't actually harmful.

        2 replies 1 retweet 11 likes
      7. 1 more reply
      1. New conversation
      2. Joshua Schwartz‏ @Metal_Crow Oct 26
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Haidt does slide from "is" to "ought" on occasion. He doesn't entertain that having more moral foundations could be maladaptive - that the foundations unique to conservatives struggle more to find ethical purchase in the modern social context than the care/harm and fairness ones.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 26
        Replying to @Metal_Crow

        I don't think Haidt sees it that way, no. It's Stephen Messenger's review I am talking about. That very claim that morality binds and blinds would seem to negate the idea that just going with them all is the path to success.

        1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      4. The Independent Whig‏ @TheWhig Oct 26
        Replying to @HPluckrose @Metal_Crow

        The moral foundations are about half the story. Cognitive style also matters. A lot. And may even be the determining factor as to how the foundations are applied.http://quillette.com/2018/04/20/towards-cognitive-theory-politics/ …

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      5. The Independent Whig‏ @TheWhig Oct 26
        Replying to @TheWhig @HPluckrose @Metal_Crow

        Haidt talks about the two main cognitive styles in a few places. places. First, in The Righteous Mind, in his discussions of WEIRD thinking on the left vs holistic thinking on the right.https://theindependentwhig.com/haidt-passages/haidt/weird-morality-and-style-of-thought/ …

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. The Independent Whig‏ @TheWhig Oct 26
        Replying to @TheWhig @HPluckrose @Metal_Crow

        Second, in top-down globalist terms on the left versus bottom-up parochial terms on the right.http://ccare.stanford.edu/videos/meng-wu-lecture-jonathan-haidt/ …

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. The Independent Whig‏ @TheWhig Oct 26
        Replying to @TheWhig @HPluckrose @Metal_Crow

        Third, picking up on Sowell’s unconstrained thinking on the left vs constrained thinking on the right, expressed as the Telos of Social Justice vs the Telos of Truth, he calls them two incompatible “sacred values” but they’re really two cognitive styles.https://youtu.be/Gatn5ameRr8 

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. The Independent Whig‏ @TheWhig Oct 26
        Replying to @TheWhig @HPluckrose @Metal_Crow

        These two cognitive styles are evident through 2,400 years of human history, overviewed by Arthur Herman in his book The Cave and the Light:pic.twitter.com/pAN2kw6cRs

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      9. The Independent Whig‏ @TheWhig Oct 26
        Replying to @TheWhig @HPluckrose @Metal_Crow

        Cognitive style is a moral foundation, in the sense of an “evolved psychological mechanism” (from Haidt’s definition of morality) of social cognition, that he missed, or at least severely underestimated.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      10. 4 more replies
      1. Centrist Independent EIC at Uniters.org‏ @UnitersCentrist Oct 26
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        "Haidt’s Evenhandedness Dilutes His Message and Harms Science" What an obviously ridiculous thing to say. It's a textbook example of the sort of blindness @JonHaidt talked about in The Righteous Mind.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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