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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Kevin‏ @Intrinsic29 Oct 24
      Replying to @Intrinsic29 @verybadwizards and

      Both Helen and James have passionately argued for gender equality in a number of places. Your quote here suggested they're opposed to it.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. Kevin‏ @Intrinsic29 Oct 24
      Replying to @Intrinsic29 @verybadwizards and

      And it'd be one thing if this was just a misstatement since this is basically live, but it's mixed in with a bunch of unfair mind-reading about their supposedly smug, gleeful intentions to hurt people.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 24
      Replying to @Intrinsic29 @verybadwizards and

      It was generally uncharitable, yes, but we expected this. I think you are more upset about it than we are because you didn't expect it of VBW. And also know us and our motivations, obviously.

      3 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    4. David Pizarro‏ @peez Oct 24
      Replying to @HPluckrose @Intrinsic29 and

      I think my disagreement just boils down to whether hoaxing is necessary, or if it is effective to hoax, and whether hoaxing is the form of criticism that I’d want to receive (i wouldn’t, but we talked to James about the value of mockery and we just have different views).

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    5. Kevin‏ @Intrinsic29 Oct 24
      Replying to @peez @HPluckrose and

      One point that would have been nice to hear brought up in relation to this is that the authors do argue against these ideas in ways that don't involve hoaxes rather often. This project is supplementary to that. Meant to address some common responses to that argument.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 24
      Replying to @Intrinsic29 @peez and

      But I think an ethical position against insincere scholarship intended to be revealed with an argument that there's a problem with knowledge production in that field can be consistently & coherently held whether you consider this hoaxing or not. I'd disagree with it.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. David Pizarro‏ @peez Oct 24
      Replying to @HPluckrose @Intrinsic29 and

      And I’m totally fine disagreeing with you on that! (I suspect you are fine too). I just wanted to go on record to clarify what the disagreement is about. (But hey, i also think lots of practical jokes border on unethical). The harder q to answer is whether they’re effective.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 24
      Replying to @peez @Intrinsic29 and

      I don't like practical jokes either. If you think this is a practical joke, all I can ask is that you read the Areo piece. If you doubt our own account of what we did and why, at least consider why we'd write so seriously about it for years & then spend a year full time on it.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. David Pizarro‏ @peez Oct 24
      Replying to @HPluckrose @Intrinsic29 and

      I read the piece (before we recorded and again after). I don’t think this is a practical joke- was merely agreeing that I think many people might reasonably set a different ethical threshold about the appropriateness of faking articles as a method of criticism.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 24
      Replying to @peez @Intrinsic29 and

      Yes and I have said I hope they'd do so consistently and if they find that undercover sting operations to reveal corruption are OK in some areas and not others, ask themselves if they could have a bias.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 24
      Replying to @HPluckrose @peez and

      But ultimately an objection to what was essentially an uncontrolled reflexive ethnography without the consent of the field examined to reveal problems in it can be honestly made. Assessments of us as motivated by a wish to pull cheap tricks, hurt ppl or oppose equality cannot.

      5:36 PM - 24 Oct 2018
      • 2 Likes
      • Rob Жизнь налаживается!
      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. David Pizarro‏ @peez Oct 24
          Replying to @HPluckrose @Intrinsic29 and

          None of which were assessments I made (are you saying that’s been my tactic?)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 24
          Replying to @peez @Intrinsic29 and

          You called it a practical joke and said we were gleefully attacking *people* and it sounded as tho you said we had opposing views on gender equality. If you don't think any of that & accept that we had good motivations, we can disagree on whether this will help or be ethical.

          5 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. David Pizarro‏ @peez Oct 24
          Replying to @HPluckrose @Intrinsic29 and

          I said that I don’t like the delight in deceiving people to make a point.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 24
          Replying to @peez @Intrinsic29 and

          And I think that is uncharitable. We were not delighted to have deceived people. We were delighted to have a paper accepted and amused by the mad comments.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. David Pizarro‏ @peez Oct 24
          Replying to @HPluckrose @Intrinsic29 and

          Fair enough, you are right that I cannot with any authority say that you took delight in deceiving. That is uncharitable and I apologize.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 24
          Replying to @peez @Intrinsic29 and

          Gladly accepted. I hope we will have more productive conversations in the future.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        8. David Pizarro‏ @peez Oct 24
          Replying to @HPluckrose @Intrinsic29 and

          Likewise, Helen. Have a good evening and thanks for the discussion.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        9. farid anvari‏ @farid_anvari Oct 25
          Replying to @peez @HPluckrose and

          podcast interview?!

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        10. 8 more replies

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