Dude you are totally missing what I said. At least quote the whole thing or give a time stamp. I said they were motivated by substantive disagreements about issues in these fields (such as how those fields treat the concept of gender equality). Is that up for debate?
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Replying to @verybadwizards @IonaItalia and
18:34: "They're very motivated to vocally disagree with some of the views that people in these fields have. And those views themselves are substantive. The views about, say, gender equality. They might not be right, but they are views that you could argue about..."
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Replying to @Intrinsic29 @verybadwizards and
Both Helen and James have passionately argued for gender equality in a number of places. Your quote here suggested they're opposed to it.
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Replying to @Intrinsic29 @verybadwizards and
And it'd be one thing if this was just a misstatement since this is basically live, but it's mixed in with a bunch of unfair mind-reading about their supposedly smug, gleeful intentions to hurt people.
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Replying to @Intrinsic29 @verybadwizards and
It was generally uncharitable, yes, but we expected this. I think you are more upset about it than we are because you didn't expect it of VBW. And also know us and our motivations, obviously.
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Replying to @HPluckrose @Intrinsic29 and
I think my disagreement just boils down to whether hoaxing is necessary, or if it is effective to hoax, and whether hoaxing is the form of criticism that I’d want to receive (i wouldn’t, but we talked to James about the value of mockery and we just have different views).
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Replying to @peez @Intrinsic29 and
And we have tried very hard to point out the difference between hoaxes and going deeply into a field for a year and reflecting its ways back at it to learn about it, see how the system worked from within it and test certain propositions. We knew everyone would say 'hoax' tho.
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Replying to @HPluckrose @peez and
We've given up on overcoming that now. But, in reality, a hoax is when you try to get a field to accept papers it wouldn't really want to accept. If you read our papers, you will see the ideas they present are absolutely legitimate within the fields & draw on existing scholarship
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Replying to @HPluckrose @Intrinsic29 and
Yeah- I agree with you there. At that point, though, your papers are indistinguishable from the actual work. Which is why I said the actual work in those journals provides plenty of examples of silliness without you guys writing fakes. (Did you really not want to call it “hoax”?)
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Replying to @peez @Intrinsic29 and
No. Please read the Areo piece. We say it is best understood as a reflexive ethnography. Going inside a system and reflecting its ways back at it. To properly understand it. To become experts in it. And turn out exemplary papers addressing our main concerns.
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And yes, we really didn't want to call it a hoax. We call that "the "H' word" and asked people not to use it. This is not a series a jokes. We asked the Wall Street Journal not to call it that repeatedly but we had no say over that ultimately.
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