Ok. I have just listened to the segment. So say that it is some "unbridled personal attack" or that they go hard at you as a person is just false. It is not that at all. James, @HPluckrose, please listen to it and make up your own minds. Pointless starting some fight...
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I am just sick of it, Jules. Obviously, we knew people would do this. We even wrote one of our papers anticipating it. But that doesn't mean we have to think it's not that bad coz they're only mildly saying we're bad faith bullies while not having read anything we said.
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Yes, in that sense, the critique itself falls short. And if you've heard all the same sort of critique before and are sick of it, I can certainly understand that. My point is that the feedback James quoted is inaccurate, and that fights should not start on the basis of it.
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I don't know what to say if you don't see that gunning for our motivations is a personal attack. Maybe you've just got jaded to a point where only vitriolic abuse seems to you like an attack on a person. Work a year on something coz you think it matters & be told smug & bad faith
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I admit I was expecting worse tho. I'd let my daughter hear it but also talk to her about why that isn't the way to address other people's arguments and why we need to critique ideas having read them, rather than blindly repeat recycled bad people narratives.
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I will take your point there Helen re me possibly being jaded. I will speculate on one thing here though, and open myself up to being schooled if I'm wrong: I don't think the videos, as beautifully shot and edited as they are, helped your cause.
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Because we were exhilarated and laughed when we got things in. We are human. We were glad to be making headway and it was ludicrous.
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Of course you were! I'm sure I would have been too. But I think publishing those videos opened you up - rightly or wrongly - to these accusations of smugness etc, and I think they get in the way of communicating what I believe is a very important message.
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You can only go so far in preempting bad faith attacks. Any honest person who takes the time to read the Areo piece will see the portrayal of them on VBW as bad faith imo. The video may appeal to more people who aren't Extremely Online and who are totally new to the issue.
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Unfortunately, their platform has gotten pretty large mostly due to
@SamHarrisOrg promoting them. -
I haven't listened, but I've had Tamler and the wizards podcast as a "to check out" for a while as I've enjoyed them with Sam. Is this an anomaly in your view?
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I mean he does ok at having civil debates with Harris but he's also pretty clearly wrong in those debates imo. I also get the distinct impression they don't like Sam and force civility because of how many listeners he's funneled them. Could be wrong though.
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