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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Arthur Dent‏ @ArthurCDent Oct 21
      Replying to @C_Kavanagh @SkepticReview89 @CathyYoung63

      Do you mean academics or others? I think it's reasonable for us to have a professional focus on ideas within the academy, rather than politics. But switching to politics, you'll notice the right does get a lot of mileage out of 'PC gone mad' issues, stemming from the academy.

      1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
    2. Chris Kavanagh‏ @C_Kavanagh Oct 22
      Replying to @ArthurCDent @SkepticReview89 @CathyYoung63

      I’m referring to a general trend amongst those who claim to be rationalists/skeptics/etc. It’s more of an online phenomenon than academic one but there are academics who pander to that crowd. Id include Boghossian amongst them. I say this as someone who identifies as the above.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. Skeptic Review‏ @SkepticReview89 Oct 22
      Replying to @C_Kavanagh @ArthurCDent @CathyYoung63

      I personally think it would be better if you could look at the work as whether it is valid or not--the personalities behind it are really not something we can know as true. If you judge all work by the person behind it you will miss a lot.

      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    4. Chris Kavanagh‏ @C_Kavanagh Oct 22
      Replying to @SkepticReview89 @ArthurCDent @CathyYoung63

      I don’t think it’s an either/or thing. Judge a work on its own merits but consider the agenda/biases of the author. Even in empirical research the ideology people approach a question from very often defines the answer they receive.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    5. Chris Kavanagh‏ @C_Kavanagh Oct 22
      Replying to @C_Kavanagh @SkepticReview89 and

      Consider the Sokal squared hoax in their promo video the flat out say that when they initially failed to get the answer they wanted they worried they had wasted their time. But then they found a better way to get their desired outcome. That’s not science that’s advocacy.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. Arthur Dent‏ @ArthurCDent Oct 22
      Replying to @C_Kavanagh @SkepticReview89 @CathyYoung63

      Yes, they wrote at length about their motivations, and I don't think they were claiming to do a scientific study. They did a sting operation - like young-looking undercover cops trying to prove an establishment sells alcohol to underage customers.

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    7. Chris Kavanagh‏ @C_Kavanagh Oct 22
      Replying to @ArthurCDent @SkepticReview89 @CathyYoung63

      Sure and they had success but people should recognise the event for what it is- advocacy. To say it is non-political and non-ideological is naïve. Boghossian might say he is just pro-science/critical thinking but his actions suggest otherwise or at least broader motives.

      4 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
      Replying to @C_Kavanagh @ArthurCDent and

      If anyone says that, it shows they haven't read the Areo write-up where we say very clearly that we're advocating not only for evidence-based epistemology but also consistently liberal ethics. We've said it pretty much everywhere else too. We've been writing about this for years.

      2 replies 0 retweets 12 likes
    9. Chris Kavanagh‏ @C_Kavanagh Oct 22
      Replying to @HPluckrose @ArthurCDent and

      You don’t think I could have read the Areo piece and arrived from a different view than what you explicitly tell me to think? Wow I guess I’m reading articles wrong. I usually don’t accept on faith the authors framing. I would refer you to the article by @Musa_alGharbi for...

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Chris Kavanagh‏ @C_Kavanagh Oct 22
      Replying to @C_Kavanagh @HPluckrose and

      ... a more in depth examination of the pros and cons and surrounding context of your efforts. I don’t deny you the right to explain your motivation but that doesn’t mean I have to uncritically swallow it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
      Replying to @C_Kavanagh @ArthurCDent and

      Ah! You've moved on from disagreeing with people who say we don't have an agenda to disagreeing with us about what we say ours is? Well, I can't do much about that. It never helps to argue with mindreaders. We are the only authority on our own motivations.

      8:13 PM - 22 Oct 2018
      • 1 Retweet
      • 19 Likes
      • Amber Boas Pekka Dᴇɴɪs Jᴇʟᴇᴄ PelikanNutz Michael Walsh NewYorkEgg Matt H. 🎃Freedom-of-Screech🦉 Mano del Rey
      3 replies 1 retweet 19 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Skeptic Review‏ @SkepticReview89 Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @C_Kavanagh and

          That is exactly what is happening. Your agenda is in doubt, but I don't have a clear answer as to what that other secret nefarious agenda is.

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
          Replying to @SkepticReview89 @C_Kavanagh and

          It depends where the other person is coming from. Usually, its that we're secretly reactionary rightists but after the socialists came out in support of us and we condemned Hungary's shutting down of gender studies, we've been accused of being Marxists & libtards again.

          1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
        4. Chris Kavanagh‏ @C_Kavanagh Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @SkepticReview89 and

          A sign of the times and/or a sign that you have attracted a disproportionate amount of ideological followers. Nuance should be seen as positive tho, I wish more people were willing to piss off their audience in favour of honesty.

          2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
          Replying to @C_Kavanagh @SkepticReview89 and

          Are you a liberal lefty? You sound like a liberal lefty. If so, this is all aimed primarily at you.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        6. Chris Kavanagh‏ @C_Kavanagh Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @SkepticReview89 and

          Unsure afte previous confusion if this is aimed at me. If it is, I’d say I’m a centre left person. Certainly not far left.

          3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Skeptic Review‏ @SkepticReview89 Oct 22
          Replying to @C_Kavanagh @HPluckrose and

          Chris--pro-science, tho, means you cannot scientifically determine motives/agendas/biases of the researchers. Just focus on the research. Let it stand. Is it true?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Chris Kavanagh‏ @C_Kavanagh Oct 22
          Replying to @SkepticReview89 @HPluckrose and

          That isn’t what being pro-science means. Of course you address the content of research but you don’t have to blind yourself to the agenda of the researchers. Also, as Helen and others acknowledge the hoax wasn’t science it was activism.

          2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        9. Skeptic Review‏ @SkepticReview89 Oct 22
          Replying to @C_Kavanagh @HPluckrose and

          Perhaps. I find it as a proof that has raises serious questions.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @C_Kavanagh and

          Apologies. I took you for someone pointing out a fact to people who have missed it. I had no idea you were hostile & would respond with indignant snark & mindreading or I'd not have attempted talking to you. I'll leave you to condemn the version of us you have invented.

          2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Skeptic Review‏ @SkepticReview89 Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @C_Kavanagh and

          I'm sorry Helen. I know it gets exhausting when you are such an honest, transparent and open scholar and writer.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
          Replying to @SkepticReview89 @C_Kavanagh and

          I try to be! I don't mind if people think I'm evil for what I actually think. But it seems that Chris and I were at cross-purposes anyway.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        5. Skeptic Review‏ @SkepticReview89 Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @C_Kavanagh and

          He's very polite but he won't agree that he can know biases and agendas through probabilities and that particularly Boghossian is anti science, so we had to leave it there.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Chris Kavanagh‏ @C_Kavanagh Oct 22
          Replying to @SkepticReview89 @HPluckrose and

          Just for the record that’s not what I’ve said. I haven’t said Boghossian is anti science and I’ve only said it is possible to identify biases and ideological agendas through applying normal skepticism/critical thinking. Ignoring all context isn’t being pure and objective.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Skeptic Review‏ @SkepticReview89 Oct 22
          Replying to @C_Kavanagh @HPluckrose and

          Skeptic Review Retweeted Chris Kavanagh

          It was a paraphrase. Sorryhttps://twitter.com/C_Kavanagh/status/1054524963695128577 …

          Skeptic Review added,

          Chris Kavanagh @C_Kavanagh
          Replying to @ArthurCDent @SkepticReview89 @CathyYoung63
          Sure and they had success but people should recognise the event for what it is- advocacy. To say it is non-political and non-ideological is naïve. Boghossian might say he is just pro-science/critical thinking but his actions suggest otherwise or at least broader motives.
          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
          Replying to @SkepticReview89 @C_Kavanagh and

          That's a mistake if Chris thought Peter denied having any political, ideological motivations. We all wrote the Areo piece where we set them out. And we've done a few talks on it.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        9. Skeptic Review‏ @SkepticReview89 Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @C_Kavanagh and

          But Chris doubts the stated motivations. That's where we get crosswise. I even asked what reliable epistemology would there be for him to determine your true motivations?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 1 more reply
        1. New conversation
        2. Chris Kavanagh‏ @C_Kavanagh Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @ArthurCDent and

          Again, I think it’s an artefact of the threading. You commented on my post so I assumed the comment was in reference to the content of that post but seems not. I’m not arguing for ‘mind reading’ just arguing for people to apply critical thinking.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
          Replying to @C_Kavanagh @ArthurCDent and

          Yes. OK. I hope its now clear that we agree that we have an agenda. We're the ones who know we have. You are right to say it. Areo is where it is written up explicitly in relation to the project and also many other pieces there setting it out including James & my manifesto.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. End of conversation

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