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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
      Replying to @lecanardnoir

      No, they don't. One can recognise the reality that trans people exist and that, in some areas, like sport and prisons, their rights and inclusion need to be considered in a class of their own. We wrote this about it.https://areomagazine.com/2017/09/27/an-argument-for-a-liberal-and-rational-approach-to-transgender-rights-and-inclusion/ …

      3 replies 2 retweets 7 likes
    2. Andy Lewis‏ @lecanardnoir Oct 22
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Of course trans people exist, but I suspect their many experiences, motives and presentations do not enable a unified, useful defintion. On the other hand, you appear to not want to recognise the objective, material existence of women? I hope I am wrong.

      2 replies 0 retweets 22 likes
    3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
      Replying to @lecanardnoir

      I sent you an essay. I recognise the objective material reality that biological sex is bimodal in teams of reproductive systems, yes, but also that gender comes from a variety of other biological aspects like brains, hormones, genetics etc.

      3 replies 2 retweets 7 likes
    4. David Smith‏ @theedwardian81 Oct 22
      Replying to @HPluckrose @lecanardnoir

      Andy, are you sure you aren't doubling down a little too hard here? Having known you through skeptical stuff for years and Helen's views widely disseminated and dissected the last few weeks.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Andy Lewis‏ @lecanardnoir Oct 22
      Replying to @theedwardian81 @HPluckrose

      I know, I am surprised I am here too right now. The disputable concepts of gender appear to come through various fashionable nonsense ideologies of the various pomo-style theories. So, I am just fascinated as to where this might lead?

      2 replies 0 retweets 12 likes
    6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
      Replying to @lecanardnoir @theedwardian81

      We've always done this in one way or another. If "He is a feminine man" makes sense to you, you too instinctively see gender as something different to biological organs. It's annoying to discuss and attempt to define sharply tho so I tend not to get into it.

      4 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
    7. Andy Lewis‏ @lecanardnoir Oct 22
      Replying to @HPluckrose @theedwardian81

      I think these terms like sex and gender, male and female are deserving of analytical definitions, not loose handwaving that may be masking fallacies, errors and nonsense. Protections and rights surely depend on this.

      2 replies 2 retweets 8 likes
    8. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
      Replying to @lecanardnoir @theedwardian81

      And people make them. We just can't enforce them on everyone or agree on them and so the meaning generally remains a vague & fluffy "characteristics, identities & behaviours which are associated with sex but are not biological organs."

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Andy Lewis‏ @lecanardnoir Oct 22
      Replying to @HPluckrose @theedwardian81

      Is that another way of saying there are no stable meanings to these words? And if so, how are you not erasing the concept of ‘woman’ as having an objective, material meaning?

      1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
    10. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
      Replying to @lecanardnoir @theedwardian81

      The reality is that there is no stable meanings to these words, yes. If there were, you'd not be arguing to me that gender doesn't make sense because it would. I didn't make the reality and pretending it doesn't exist won't produce an objective, material meaning.

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
      Replying to @HPluckrose @lecanardnoir @theedwardian81

      One day, we might know all there is to know about why some people are trans and be able to plot the biological aspects of what makes someone a woman including gonads, brains, hormones, responses to pheromones, genetics etc and be able to plot people on that. We can't now.

      3:45 PM - 22 Oct 2018
      • 1 Like
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      4 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @lecanardnoir @theedwardian81

          Currently, you are just arguing to restrict the objective meaning to gonads (almost no-one aegues gonads are not objectively real & bimodal. The whole concept of trans relies on it) and ignore the rest of relevant biology. That will fail as trans people will continue to exist.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. CorrienteCanta‏ @corrientecanta Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @lecanardnoir @theedwardian81

          There are only two sexual reproductive classes, male and female, and the entire history of the male-class exploiting the female-class has occurred along those lines. Women being infertile (e.g.) did not enable them to opt out of the oppressed class.

          5 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. CorrienteCanta‏ @corrientecanta Oct 22
          Replying to @corrientecanta @HPluckrose and

          It matters that women be able to make those statements and have them mean something. It's the entire core of feminism.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. 1 more reply
        1. New conversation
        2. Nespresso‏ @Nespresso821 Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @lecanardnoir @theedwardian81

          So there's no stable meaning for "gender" and no stable meaning for "woman"? Do you even accept that there is a stable meaning for "female" and "male"?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
          Replying to @Nespresso821 @lecanardnoir @theedwardian81

          See thread. I'm not going over it again. Also article. I wrote that so as not to keep having this discussion.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. David Smith‏ @theedwardian81 Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @lecanardnoir

          It feels a bit like age of consent argument. Ranges in the west from (recently) from 13 to 18 or so. But got people suddenly essentialism it the second they are outraged or decide harm has been done.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. David Smith‏ @theedwardian81 Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @lecanardnoir

          I assume by the time it's that messy you get a bistable distribution, yet we still have to put a social either/or on a messy spectrum with some sympathy.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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