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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Andy Lewis‏ @lecanardnoir Oct 22
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      I understand the US government is going about defining man and woman based on a framework of biological sex. What alternatives should be used to not ‘erase' trans people that are coherent, material, objective and useful in law?

      4 replies 0 retweets 29 likes
    2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
      Replying to @lecanardnoir

      I'm not even sure what that question means. There's seldom a need to define the sex of someone in law and when there is, it usually comes down to some biological difference which can be accounted for in law.

      6 replies 2 retweets 4 likes
    3. Andy Lewis‏ @lecanardnoir Oct 22
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      In the UK, sex is a protected characteristic that enables women, for example, to exclude men from certain protected spaced (prisons, rape crisis centres etc). Such protections require a defintion of what a man and a woman is. This is quite fundamental, no?

      1 reply 0 retweets 22 likes
    4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
      Replying to @lecanardnoir

      No, they don't. One can recognise the reality that trans people exist and that, in some areas, like sport and prisons, their rights and inclusion need to be considered in a class of their own. We wrote this about it.https://areomagazine.com/2017/09/27/an-argument-for-a-liberal-and-rational-approach-to-transgender-rights-and-inclusion/ …

      3 replies 2 retweets 7 likes
    5. Andy Lewis‏ @lecanardnoir Oct 22
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Of course trans people exist, but I suspect their many experiences, motives and presentations do not enable a unified, useful defintion. On the other hand, you appear to not want to recognise the objective, material existence of women? I hope I am wrong.

      2 replies 0 retweets 22 likes
    6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
      Replying to @lecanardnoir

      I sent you an essay. I recognise the objective material reality that biological sex is bimodal in teams of reproductive systems, yes, but also that gender comes from a variety of other biological aspects like brains, hormones, genetics etc.

      3 replies 2 retweets 7 likes
    7. David Smith‏ @theedwardian81 Oct 22
      Replying to @HPluckrose @lecanardnoir

      Andy, are you sure you aren't doubling down a little too hard here? Having known you through skeptical stuff for years and Helen's views widely disseminated and dissected the last few weeks.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Andy Lewis‏ @lecanardnoir Oct 22
      Replying to @theedwardian81 @HPluckrose

      I know, I am surprised I am here too right now. The disputable concepts of gender appear to come through various fashionable nonsense ideologies of the various pomo-style theories. So, I am just fascinated as to where this might lead?

      2 replies 0 retweets 12 likes
    9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
      Replying to @lecanardnoir @theedwardian81

      We've always done this in one way or another. If "He is a feminine man" makes sense to you, you too instinctively see gender as something different to biological organs. It's annoying to discuss and attempt to define sharply tho so I tend not to get into it.

      4 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
    10. Andy Lewis‏ @lecanardnoir Oct 22
      Replying to @HPluckrose @theedwardian81

      And no I do not use the term gender apart from discussion here, because I have not confidence any listener will share the same conceptual understanding as me. If a shit-show of a word. Any use of the word gender I use, I can replace with a ‘sex’ alternative. e.g.

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
      Replying to @lecanardnoir @theedwardian81

      This looks like turning into one of those discussions of definitions which does very little to engage with the reality of what is going on with gender identities different from biological sex and which is not yet well understood. We can't define the reality away.

      3:37 PM - 22 Oct 2018
      • 1 Retweet
      • 3 Likes
      • GOOD PUPPER Felis Grognardicus David Smith
      3 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
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        2. Andy Lewis‏ @lecanardnoir Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @theedwardian81

          I am afraid if we cannot agree on definitions then no meaningful communication can take place between us. We will just be speaking gobbledegook at each other. A shame, but it is late here, so goodnight.

          2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
          Replying to @lecanardnoir @theedwardian81

          I think we just have to go with what we can agree on. What there is evidence for. Much talking past each other comes from thinking the other person is defining things the same way as you. Hence calling people delusional. I agree it would be nice to have clear boundaries tho.

          1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
        4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @lecanardnoir @theedwardian81

          Eg "You're delusional if you think men can be women" usually means "You're delusional if you think people born with penises can be people born with vaginas" but the other person didn't mean that at all so isn't delusional but defining things differently.

          2 replies 1 retweet 1 like
        5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @lecanardnoir @theedwardian81

          I want to go with the evidence which is that people exist who feel sure they are the opposite sex to their genitals & science is starting to show us why they do. In practical terms, we need to recognise that this causes some unique rights & access problems which need addressing.

          4 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
        6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @lecanardnoir @theedwardian81

          And this can't be helped by insisting that trans men and women be treated straightforwardly as the sex their genitals indicate or as the sex they feel themselves to be. Eg Neither men's nor women's prisons are appropriate for trans women. It all needs to worked out.

          1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
        7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @lecanardnoir @theedwardian81

          This isn't helped by people wanting to have everything cut and dried right now for ideological reasons with the solution being a straightforward claim that trans women are women or they are men. They are trans women & we have yet to fully understand this & work out ethical stuff.

          3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        8. Terry Aki  🎃 🕸️ 👻‏ @huckleterryfinn Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @lecanardnoir @theedwardian81

          I used to have a very PoMo position on sex and gender, then decided this was rubbish and swung to the other end of very RadFem definitions. Realised those were flawed as well. Now I'm kinda in the middle, acknowledging that it's a difficult/fuzzy thing with no easy answers.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        9. Terry Aki  🎃 🕸️ 👻‏ @huckleterryfinn Oct 22
          Replying to @huckleterryfinn @HPluckrose and

          Yes there's a very strong bimodal distribution of biological sex *but* I can't tell if someone is intersex by looking at them. I assume everyone I see is either male or female. Some trans people "look trans", others don't.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        10. 3 more replies
        1. David Smith‏ @theedwardian81 Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @lecanardnoir

          In no way does this mean I can define myself as a woman or a courgette

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. David Smith‏ @theedwardian81 Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose @lecanardnoir

          This, at least at edge cases. I don't know what it means to be 'a man' though as far as I can tell, I am biologically male

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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