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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20

      Helen Pluckrose Retweeted Helen Pluckrose

      I just accidentally quote tweeted a person I was having a disagreement with saying 'don't be this person' when I meant to quote tweet myself saying this: https://twitter.com/HPluckrose/status/685624693093699585?s=19 … Have apologised and deleted. I did not mean to single him out as a person not to be!

      Helen Pluckrose added,

      Helen Pluckrose @HPluckrose
      If I read your words this way, I can show why its wrong! Let me clarify my meaning. No, I really want to argue against what you didn't mean.
      1 reply 5 retweets 33 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20

      That approach to discussion annoys me. I understand liking to have a good argument. I am someone who enjoys them. But there is no point in arguing with something someone doesn't mean even if you can show their words to be plausibly interpreted that way. The author is not dead.

      2 replies 1 retweet 29 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20

      I am not a fan of holding people to plausible or even literal interpretations of their words when they have clarified their meaning to be something else. People can misspeak or overstate or misrepresent their own view in haste or frustration.

      4 replies 5 retweets 35 likes
      Show this thread
    4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20

      Or they can be speaking in a context they assume you to be aware of having been over the fine details previously. Insisting that they really did mean what you read them to mean rather than what they tell you they mean is pointless.

      1 reply 1 retweet 20 likes
      Show this thread
    5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20

      Even if you think they really did mean what you thought they meant and are now backpedaling, in 9 cases out of 10, it's best to let them do that if your aim is to change their mind from the view you thought they had rather than be seen to have "won."

      2 replies 3 retweets 20 likes
      Show this thread
    6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20

      There is a certain type of person who seems to enjoy finding loopholes in a point with which to argue needlessly rather than engaging with what was clearly the point and these people are incredibly tiresome.

      3 replies 21 retweets 85 likes
      Show this thread
    7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20

      I first realised how common this was when Richard Dawkins tweeted that it was unacceptable to deny women the right to drive and 25 people replied "even if they've been convicted of dangerous or drunk driving." I have many ppl muted for it. I don't understand the psychology at all

      3 replies 10 retweets 50 likes
      Show this thread
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20

      There must be some pleasure in taking a statement out of context and finding a way in which it doesn't apply or has an exception because so many people do it, but I can't imagine what it is or how it works.

      2:59 PM - 20 Oct 2018
      • 8 Retweets
      • 41 Likes
      • Candy Corn Woman Jim T Optimistic skeptic Ickly Bognostroclums Iona Italia Someone Else Atheist Revolution Mike 'Godfrey Kāfir-Goy' #PCPEU
      16 replies 8 retweets 41 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Tamara Brouwer‏ @TamaraBrouwer1 Oct 20
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          I mean....you've studied history. You must know this is a common human trait.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20
          Replying to @TamaraBrouwer1

          But why? What is the pleasure in it? It doesn't make other people think you are clever. It just makes them think you are an irritating bore.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Tamara Brouwer‏ @TamaraBrouwer1 Oct 20
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Multiple reasons: - simply misunderstanding (don't overestimate ppl) - drawing conclusions based on previous experiences - disliking the misinterpreted person - Some ppl do think it's clever. There are quite a few popular ppl thriving on this activity.

          1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
        5. Henry Fitzgerald‏ @HenryTarquin Oct 20
          Replying to @TamaraBrouwer1 @HPluckrose

          Your last two points combine. The reason some people think it's clever is they think they're uncovering villains' Freudian slips.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        6. Tamara Brouwer‏ @TamaraBrouwer1 Oct 21
          Replying to @HenryTarquin @HPluckrose

          They can all combine, yes. But they needn't. Many people are perfectly fine with being clever about ppl they have no personal opinion on.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        7. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Arthur Dent‏ @ArthurCDent Oct 20
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Defended SokalSq by pointing out I would have rejected those papers, not ‘revise’ with lots of helpful advice. Get called a ‘mean Reviewer 2’ who enjoys rejecting papers out of hand, hurting grad students by not helping teach them to write papers...

          2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Just a Humanist‏ @ClaudeL1979 Oct 20
          Replying to @ArthurCDent @HPluckrose

          How dare you not coach authors on how to word their bullshit correctly to get it past the gate-keepers of virtue?

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation
        1. Atheist Revolution‏ @vjack Oct 20
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          In some cases, I suspect it is little more than trolling. They want to annoy you and that is the only reason they need for doing it.

          0 replies 1 retweet 1 like
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        1. Angie‏ @Grizzabella3 Oct 20
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          My 12 year old does this, I call it the "what ifs" where he feels the need to negotiate for every possible scenario. It's frustrating, and exhausting.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. Arthur Dent‏ @ArthurCDent Oct 20
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          The sad thing is, I’ve noticed it’s often academics doing it - who ought to know better.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. Nocturnal‏ @Nocturnal_biped Oct 20
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          If you're arguing to win you can easily fake a win by going for a gotcha moment.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. slowhandzen‏ @slowhandzen Oct 20
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Just not so clever people who think they're finding ways to be clever.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. Swiftdasher‏ @swiftdasher Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          I've never understood the mentality of them, but I sure as hell recognise the type.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. neptunemassif‏ @neptunemassif1 Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          It can be a fine line though, since many sharp minds seek to rigorously test all putative solutions. Best to take a generous mindset but still be the gentle drill exposing lacunae.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. New conversation
        2. Spooky Cavy‏ @honestcavy Oct 22
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          I think for some it's a mindset they get into where they interpret things in an almost robotic way. If they are used to doing work where extreme precision is important, particularly if it involves dissecting language, they may accidentally carry it over into other areas.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Spooky Cavy‏ @honestcavy Oct 22
          Replying to @honestcavy @HPluckrose

          Sometimes when one is incredibly focused, trying to take the maximum amount of meaning from something, one actually loses sight of the context in search of deeper meaning hidden within the words. I'll admit this has happened to me before.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. Elizabeth Lefavour‏ @Maranathakurios Oct 21
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Haha. Me neither. Which is pretty much why I became a historian.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Thomas Godshalk‏ @shillin4peace Oct 21
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          It's an easy win. Find a chink in the armour and feel as if you've disproven the entire argument.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Gooey Grey Centre‏ @GooeyGreyCentre Oct 20
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          So your saying coffee is better than tea?

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. New conversation
        2. The Independent Whig‏ @TheWhig Oct 20
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          In my experience this is most common among academics. They think the only legitimate type of thinking is WEIRD rationalism. Consilience is not a thing with them. They say “show me the evidence.” You list several books, each of which is chock full of notes, references, .......

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. The Independent Whig‏ @TheWhig Oct 20
          Replying to @TheWhig @HPluckrose

          ...links to studies and other research. They say “That’s not evidence. Show me the peer reviewed paper about a controlled experiment that makes precisely the point you’re asserting. It’s pedantry squared. And they think they’re making an argument, or a point. They’re not.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. The Independent Whig‏ @TheWhig Oct 20
          Replying to @TheWhig @HPluckrose

          Here are three articles on this very topic. 1)https://quillette.com/2018/04/08/academias-consilience-crisis/ …

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. The Independent Whig‏ @TheWhig Oct 20
          Replying to @TheWhig @HPluckrose

          2)https://heterodoxacademy.org/constructive-criticism-hxa-open-mind-conference/ …

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. The Independent Whig‏ @TheWhig Oct 20
          Replying to @TheWhig @HPluckrose

          3)https://theindependentwhig.com/2017/11/18/science-is-rational-rationalism-isnt-science/ …

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. End of conversation

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