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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20

    OK, I need to have a thread about centrism coz I am being accused of it again in terms of doing 'both sides' stuff. I've said before why I don't think centrism (in the sense of taking a middle position on everything rather than finding your views somewhere near the middle) works.

    9:48 AM - 20 Oct 2018
    • 27 Retweets
    • 107 Likes
    • Blue Darknut Mark Schirmer 🦇🖤💀👻卂ntiҜripkean💧➡️❄️🍑 Roccam's Occam Robots Jason Keebler 🐻 Darío Moisés Regina🎃 Sean Ryan Michael Russo
    27 replies 27 retweets 107 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20

        I am not 'a centrist.' In the UK, I am centre-left. If I was in the US, I'd be further left. If I was in Pakistan, I'd be a radical.When it comes to the political spectrum, my views are moderate but it's a mistake to assume that I, or anyone, takes a position because it is centre

        4 replies 9 retweets 84 likes
        Show this thread
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20

        On many things, I am close to being an absolutist. These things include freedom of speech, individualism, secularism, the importance of an evidence-based epistemology, the non-discrimination of people by gender, race or sexuality. I am uncompromising on all these things.

        5 replies 13 retweets 111 likes
        Show this thread
      4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20

        Having these values means I cannot support any positions on the far-left or far-right coz both of those positions are in opposition to the values above. This is a very different motivation to finding myself somewhere in the middle than having a predilection for middle positions.

        1 reply 11 retweets 44 likes
        Show this thread
      5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20

        Those awful memes which have 'centrists' taking a middle position on major human rights issues actually reveal the motivated inconsistency that extremists are prone to, not those of us often accused of centrism right now.

        3 replies 9 retweets 54 likes
        Show this thread
      6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20

        It's not us who support freedom of speech sometimes, who think religious privilege is OK in some cases, who want some individual freedoms curtailed, who think evidence can be dispensed with for some claims or that it is OK to discriminate by race, gender sexuality in some cases.

        4 replies 10 retweets 42 likes
        Show this thread
      7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20

        The kind of inconsistency above which applies values pragmatically and inconsistently is not the failing of the majority of us who value secular liberal democracy and the fruits of the Enlightenment. It is the failing of the ideologue who can be right or left.

        3 replies 8 retweets 41 likes
        Show this thread
      8. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. D'Menshah Ka'nshur‏ @DNshur Oct 20
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        How can you argue for an evidence based epistemology and at the same time argue for non-discrimination?

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20
        Replying to @DNshur

        By arguing for not discriminating by gender, race and sexuality specifically. It's fine to discriminate against people based on evidence that they are, eg not qualified for a certain job. Their gender, race or sexuality won't tell you that.

        3 replies 0 retweets 11 likes
      4. D'Menshah Ka'nshur‏ @DNshur Oct 20
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        It will under certain circumstances, if the evidence is there- you can't prejudge it. I am not arguing for discrimination, only that your starting point is false and could be used against you.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20
        Replying to @DNshur

        How is it false? I'm clearly not asking for people never to discriminate on the grounds of evidence.

        2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      6. D'Menshah Ka'nshur‏ @DNshur Oct 20
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        But you don't know what that evidence is. And to what it might relate to. You cannot start from a position of waiting for the evidence and at the same time denying any possible relationship that evidence might suggest to people with shared characteristics. It's disingenuous.

        1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
      7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20
        Replying to @DNshur

        I don't know what you mean. Obviously, we can't evaluate on evidence if we don't know what it is. But I am talking about not discriminating on the grounds of race, gender or sexuality but on evidence of unsuitability.

        3 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
      8. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20
        Replying to @HPluckrose @DNshur

        Eg, in the most extreme difference we know of, it was found that no woman has ever passed strength & stamina requirements to be a marine. But not rejected on the grounds of being women but on not having the strength or stamina. If one day, a woman does, she should be accepted

        1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      9. 3 more replies
      1. New conversation
      2. Centrist Independent EIC at Uniters.org‏ @UnitersCentrist Oct 21
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        That's not what being a centrist means.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 21
        Replying to @UnitersCentrist

        That's why I defined it. It is what I am being accused of so it is that I need to address.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Centrist Independent EIC at Uniters.org‏ @UnitersCentrist Oct 21
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I get that. I see a lot of people misuse that term, and see why you're explaining yourself.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 21
        Replying to @UnitersCentrist

        I don't think it's a very useful term either, tbh. It misses the point.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Centrist Independent EIC at Uniters.org‏ @UnitersCentrist Oct 21
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Agree on 'centrism'. That's not a term I use when I can get away with it. No way around using shorthand labels like centrist, left, right, etc.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. luke‏ @lukechurchill3 Oct 20
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        But don’t a lot of people with left and right leaning views just go by centrist? I don’t think the term necessarily means your opinion on every issue falls in middle. (If that is what you mean here)

        1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 20
        Replying to @lukechurchill3

        That's why I defined the accusations.

        3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      4. William Scott Scherk‏ @wsscherk Oct 20
        Replying to @HPluckrose @lukechurchill3

        I've seen the utility of "Radical Moderate" or plain old "Skeptic" ...

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      5. luke‏ @lukechurchill3 Oct 20
        Replying to @wsscherk @HPluckrose

        But when I hear “radical moderate” I just think of Rick and Morty fans

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      6. William Scott Scherk‏ @wsscherk Oct 20
        Replying to @lukechurchill3 @HPluckrose

        I take it from Pierre Trudeau's musing on the "radical middle." Definitely an under-determined buzz-phrase. My ultra-Trumpist has a weird buzz-phrase landscape surrounding "Elites." Boo hiss.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Raymond McCue  💗⚤ 💜⚣ 💙,  🏳️‍🌈‏ @RayMcCue Oct 20
        Replying to @wsscherk @lukechurchill3 @HPluckrose

        Wikipedia has an article on radical centrism (Not that I trust it to be a mostly unbiased source anymore) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_centrism …

        2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      8. William Scott Scherk‏ @wsscherk Oct 20
        Replying to @RayMcCue @lukechurchill3 @HPluckrose

        I'll have to use it as a variant in my tiresome "'The Left' | 'The Right' | 'A Flabby Generality' ate my homework." I have come to loathe a certain petitio ... if you know what I mean.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      9. End of conversation

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