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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 14

      When I wrote this piece, some people were confused by or sceptical of my distinction between the radical (socialist) left and the identitarian (postmodern) left. https://areomagazine.com/2018/08/23/no-we-are-not-right-wing-we-are-liberal-lefties-and-we-are-many/ … I said this:pic.twitter.com/ctLas6MGgr

      7 replies 18 retweets 76 likes
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    2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 14

      This is probably because the postmodern left pays some lip-service to anti-capitalism, seeing capitalism as one element of an oppressive power system alongside patriarchy, white supremacy, imperialism, heteronormativity & cisnormativity. But economic class is very often neglectedpic.twitter.com/EcMOT6UXQe

      2 replies 4 retweets 22 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 14

      Also, the socialist left will often incorporate an element of intersectionality into their class analysis to look at ways in which race & gender can exacerbate class inequalities. But they do not do this in a postmodern way & always focus primarily on economic class.

      1 reply 4 retweets 21 likes
      Show this thread
    4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 14

      Often it was Americans who were unclear on or sceptical of this distinction so I began to think the divide was not so clear in the US. Consequently, I was very pleased to see this piece from a socialist outlet which sets it out so clearly & in US context. https://twitter.com/SEP_US/status/1051285224070483968 …pic.twitter.com/WTfYp2RMeZ

      1 reply 4 retweets 23 likes
      Show this thread
    5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 14

      I remain open to the idea that there is a section of the activist left which is operating on some mixture of radical & identitarian conceptions of society but Marxism & postmodernism remain antithetical at root & what we are seeing in SocJus approaches is postmodern.

      4 replies 5 retweets 31 likes
      Show this thread
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 14

      This matters if we want to address it. Not much can be achieved by responding to postmodern ideas as tho they operate within a Marxist framework. Even if you disagree strongly with both, understanding the difference is necessary.

      1:31 AM - 14 Oct 2018
      • 8 Retweets
      • 41 Likes
      • Mishkat Al Alvi Prole Art Threat Cameron Bluett Rev. Duncan Trussell M.D. Mark Gleason Lasse Frandsen ヾ(。ꏿ﹏ꏿ)ノ゙ 🎃Freedom-of-Screech🦉 AtticusOz
      11 replies 8 retweets 41 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. James Elton‏ @JamesElton13 Oct 14
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          I don't think the identitarian elements of social justice *do* come from postmodernism. They view identity as a material condition; it's something you can't change. And that material condition determines your identitarian class. That sounds like Marx to me. Where as typical...

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 14
          Replying to @JamesElton13

          No, they don't. They regard it as a cultural construct very explicitly. And they don't cite Marx. Crenshaw, for example, described intersectionality as 'Contemporary politics applied to postmodern theory.'

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. James Elton‏ @JamesElton13 Oct 14
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          I know. They're confused.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 14
          Replying to @JamesElton13

          OK. They're not doing Marxism tho. There's almost no economic analysis. They believe in knowledge as a product of power perpetuated by discourse & they cite Foucault, Derrida, Lyotard etc for this.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. James Elton‏ @JamesElton13 Oct 14
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          I agree. But I don't think they're doing postmodernism either. Foucault and Derrida don't lead to intersectionality. I think social justice is more properly seen as a mish-mash of influences, that's more of a romantic political movement than an intellectual one.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 14
          Replying to @JamesElton13

          You can certainly argue they shouldn't have been used for this purpose. They have been, though.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        8. James Elton‏ @JamesElton13 Oct 14
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          That's a fair point.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        9. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Tui‏ @TuiTemporaltui Oct 14
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          sorry question? Isn't the power dynamic (oppressed vs oppressor) essentially Marxist in origin.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 14
          Replying to @TuiTemporaltui

          No. This existed long before Marx. Think of the Peasants Revolt, The American Revolution, the abolition of slavery and many more. Marxism did not invent the idea of revolution against power structures.

          3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Tui‏ @TuiTemporaltui Oct 14
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          I was thinking more of the concept that everything in society is essentially a tool of the powerful to control the powerless and everyone is divided into those two categories, and history is a struggle between them.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 14
          Replying to @TuiTemporaltui

          That's more to do with liberalism and the attitude which overcame theocracy, feudalism, slavery, colonialism, patriarchy & apartheid. We certainly can't say all analyses of history which look at power imbalances are Marxist. That's a specifically economic one. Many more exist.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Tui‏ @TuiTemporaltui Oct 14
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          sorry another question if you don't mind, I made a video you see about social justice ideology and I thought Marxism influenced critical theory and postmodernism is that incorrect? do you have any recommended reading to get a better idea?

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 14
          Replying to @TuiTemporaltui

          Postmodernism certainly reacted to Marxism. It was one of its first targets. I'd look at Lyotard, Derrida and Foucault on Marxism.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        8. Tui‏ @TuiTemporaltui Oct 14
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          ok Thank you Helen

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. End of conversation
        1. (((theophilus)))‏ @pammalamma Oct 14
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          I have debated with resisters here in Austin about whether class struggle should be included in the word “racism.” They: yea, me: nay. I feel that combining wealth inequality with race causes many problems.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. ElectroMagneticJosh‏ @electomagneticJ Oct 14
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          I also contend that the socialist and liberal left often operate on more of a continuum supporting measures and policies relative to where they fall on it. The identarian left operate in similar a space to the identarian right.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Artifact‏ @PrismOfReality Oct 14
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Ok. I’m convinced. I still have the problem of the profs that say the are Marxist but they never talk about class and only talk about intersectional oppression. They call themselves Marxist. They are recognized academics, and identify as Marxist. Ie, it’s their political identity

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. New conversation
        2. Richard Dickerson‏ @SlothSamurai Oct 14
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          I think the reason Cultural Marxism has stuck is that they share the same tribal analysis of dividing society into 'bourgeoisie - those with privilege,' and 'the proletariat - the oppressed.' It's the same slight of hand that reflects a cartoon level of sophistication.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Richard Dickerson‏ @SlothSamurai Oct 14
          Replying to @SlothSamurai @HPluckrose

          Maybe that isn't a detailed enough analysis of the two philosophies, so I'm curious where you think this is wrong?

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. Ryan Valentine‏ @RyanVal13646830 Oct 14
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Helen, I have always thought that Herbert Marcuse synthesized Freud, Marxism and Postmodernism as the philosophical basis for the new left. Is that incorrect?

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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