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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jun 7

    Helen Pluckrose Retweeted Claire Lehmann

    I'm unconvinced that 'Marxism' is the right term for seeing society in terms of oppressor & oppressed groups & prioritising this. People have done this long before Marx because groups have oppressed other groups. What matters is whether their perception is rooted in reality.https://twitter.com/clairlemon/status/1004636732514430976 …

    Helen Pluckrose added,

    Claire LehmannVerified account @clairlemon
    When people talk about “neo-Marxist post-modernism” they mean this: the inability to see anything except through the lens of one group oppressing another. Marxist superstructures applied to gender/race/sexuality/etc. https://twitter.com/abcthedrum/status/1004625284832743424?s=21 …
    3:11 AM - 7 Jun 2018
    • 4 Retweets
    • 31 Likes
    • Gedankenschild R.A. Corine Not-A-Nation Ball 🇧🇪 paul foley Lukas Reynolds Trumpet of Virtue David Hawisher Byenia
    5 replies 4 retweets 31 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jun 7

        Moses was not being a proto-Marxist when he mythically said 'Let my people go.' The American revolution was not a form of Marxism. Neither was the Peasants' Revolt or the abolition of slavery. Sometimes ppl see society in terms of oppressed & oppressor groups because it is.

        1 reply 6 retweets 19 likes
        Show this thread
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jun 7

        This is what matters. Is there a good reason to see society in this way? What evidence for it is there? I fear that associating claims of societal injustice with Marxism can often be a form of "You know who also liked dogs? Hitler."

        4 replies 3 retweets 16 likes
        Show this thread
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Niels Bohr‏ @neils_bohr_ Jun 7
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Marx's conflict theory strongly lends himself to being the focus of this term, imo. While oppressor/oppressed dynamics have existed for centuries, they more often would describe warring neighbours than social groups within a peacetime entity.

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jun 7
        Replying to @neils_bohr_

        OK, but this doesn't mean that every analysis which looks at social groups within a society is just a variation on Marxism. Marxism is a very specific class analysis.

        2 replies 1 retweet 1 like
      4. Niels Bohr‏ @neils_bohr_ Jun 7
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        I dont think there is any suggestion that every & all analysis of social groups is a variation of Marxism, or that the act of analysing social groups is either I don't see Marx's conflict theory being constrainted to either his time or the protagonists of his analysis

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Gall Anonim‏ @GallAnon1m Jun 7
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Call it neomarxism, call it conflict theory, the point is, looking at all present and past sociopolitical issues through the lens of power and oppressor/oppressed groups, belief in dogmatic egalitarianism is a thing of the radical Left.

        1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      3. Giovanna Liviana  🖖🏻‏ @GiovannaLiviana Jun 7
        Replying to @GallAnon1m @HPluckrose

        Actually, no, it isn't. This focus on identity politics, outrage culture, & victim mentality is actually nothing but a series of obstacles to the attainment of any leftist goals. Leftism requires Solidarity & all this stuff you're talking about promotes division.

        2 replies 1 retweet 8 likes
      4. Giovanna Liviana  🖖🏻‏ @GiovannaLiviana Jun 7
        Replying to @GiovannaLiviana @GallAnon1m @HPluckrose

        And Helen is right, Marxists, as well as other Leftists (since we're not all Marxists, there being many types of Socialism besides Marxist Socialism) are concerned with class struggle. Class is not an identity, regardless of how much some revisionist takes on intersectionality

        1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      5. Giovanna Liviana  🖖🏻‏ @GiovannaLiviana Jun 7
        Replying to @GiovannaLiviana @GallAnon1m @HPluckrose

        have tried to make it so. When you focus on all these diverse skin colors & sexualities & so forth, all you're doing is promoting division based on what are largely superficial characteristics. But the poor black woman has more in common with the poor white man than either has in

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      6. Giovanna Liviana  🖖🏻‏ @GiovannaLiviana Jun 7
        Replying to @GiovannaLiviana @GallAnon1m @HPluckrose

        common with any member of the 1%. The working class, regardless of their various sexualities, have more in common with one another than they do with any useless bloated leech sitting at the top of the pyramid getting fat off the lifeblood of the people. This is the only

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      7. Giovanna Liviana  🖖🏻‏ @GiovannaLiviana Jun 7
        Replying to @GiovannaLiviana @GallAnon1m @HPluckrose

        oppression worthy of any attention, because until it is successfully dealt with, none of these divided up identity groups are going to ever have their needs & concerns dealt with in anything remotely akin to a permanent way. Identity politics is a distraction. It is perhaps even

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      8. Giovanna Liviana  🖖🏻‏ @GiovannaLiviana Jun 7
        Replying to @GiovannaLiviana @GallAnon1m @HPluckrose

        a tactic for perpetuating the status quo, because it is naught but realization of the old oligarchic strategy "divide ut regnes." As long as we are divided into rival groups squabbling over scraps from the table of the 1%, we cannot stand together in Solidarity against the 1%.

        2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      9. Kirbmarc‏ @kirbmarc Jun 7
        Replying to @GiovannaLiviana @GallAnon1m @HPluckrose

        When big corporations (Google, Starbucks, etc) adopt the intersectional paradigm, leftists should be at least suspicious.

        2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      10. 5 more replies
      1. Rob McMillin‏ @scareduck Jun 7
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        True, but the language ("privilege") and the binary focus on oppressor and oppressed directly mirrors Marxism much more than any of the examples you give in the next tweet. It's a pretty good fit, relatively.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Alistair Young‏ @cerebrate Jun 7
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        It’s not so much seeing it that way, I think, inasmuch as it’s developing the inability to see it any *other* way.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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