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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jun 6
      Replying to @LTorcello @JeremyPhilosoph

      Yeah, reality is messy. We have to go with what people actually do and say when we're looking at an evolvong ideology rather than with concepts read in most charitable light.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. Lawrence Torcello‏ @LTorcello Jun 6
      Replying to @HPluckrose @JeremyPhilosoph

      I don't know when reading an opposing view point in its most charitable light became bad argumentative practice. I do know that doing so amplifies those who aren't being careful with definitions and concepts while spreading more heat than light.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jun 6
      Replying to @LTorcello @JeremyPhilosoph

      It's not but while you are providing the most charitable reading of the foundational documents of intersectionality or Islam or Marxism or whatever, other people are dealing with the reality of ideology in practice. It still does to be charitable when talking to any individual.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Lawrence Torcello‏ @LTorcello Jun 6
      Replying to @HPluckrose @JeremyPhilosoph

      You can do both. I can critique someone's interpretation, or misinterpretation, of a concept while doing justice to that concept. This is my responsibility as a liberal. I don't think using "Identity Politics" as a synonym for relativism, or "SJW" as a slur ever helps.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jun 6
      Replying to @LTorcello @JeremyPhilosoph

      Yes and I think I do. I explain intersectionality very charitably here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AvyqUOKhGA … I break down Crenshaw's foundational essays here: http://helenpluckroseblogs.blogspot.com/2017/02/extract-from-essay-of-mine-which-breaks.html … And the book I am currently writing on the subject starts with the good.

      2 replies 1 retweet 1 like
    6. Lawrence Torcello‏ @LTorcello Jun 6
      Replying to @HPluckrose @JeremyPhilosoph

      Thanks for sharing, Helen. I'll try to watch this whole thing when I can. You, in particular, seem more charitable than your panel partners so far. I'm struck by how quickly things have gone from critique to castigating opponents as religious zealots in conspiratorial tones.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jun 6
      Replying to @LTorcello @JeremyPhilosoph

      Well, we do all think there is a quasi-religious zealotry going on right now which is troubling but we all support liberal aims for gender/racial/LGBT equality. We critique the extremes on both sides. James and I wrote this one:https://areomagazine.com/2017/08/22/a-manifesto-against-the-enemies-of-modernity/ …

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Lawrence Torcello‏ @LTorcello Jun 6
      Replying to @HPluckrose @JeremyPhilosoph

      Extremes are are one thing but (so far in the video) I'm not hearing any examples of reasonable foils on the other side who aren't "filling a church" when it comes to contemporary scholarship. This strikes me as a problem given the audience of young conservatives...

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jun 6
      Replying to @LTorcello @JeremyPhilosoph

      I think we'd consider ourselves that!

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Lawrence Torcello‏ @LTorcello Jun 6
      Replying to @HPluckrose @JeremyPhilosoph

      I suspect there are other reasonable peopke who disagree with you.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jun 6
      Replying to @LTorcello @JeremyPhilosoph

      Yes, but if they disagree with me on the issues & values I hold, I can't coherently consider them reasonable on those issues & values. If I did, I'd change my own to them & we'd no longer be in disagreement. I could find them reasonable more broadly if we disagree on one thing.

      5:02 PM - 6 Jun 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Lawrence Torcello‏ @LTorcello Jun 6
          Replying to @HPluckrose @JeremyPhilosoph

          We disagree. I take it we are able to do so because of reasonableness and not despite it.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jun 6
          Replying to @LTorcello @JeremyPhilosoph

          I have not heard any arguments from you for intersectionality. I have no idea what your reasoning abilities are like. So far, I only know that you are polite and have not said anything unreasonable.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Lawrence Torcello‏ @LTorcello Jun 6
          Replying to @HPluckrose @JeremyPhilosoph

          I agree with Crenshaw's use of the term. I think it misleading to paint it as an ideology invading humanities departments. I think social justice and identity politics ought not be used as derisive descriptions--and that being unreasonable and irrational are different things.

          3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Lawrence Torcello‏ @LTorcello Jun 6
          Replying to @LTorcello @HPluckrose @JeremyPhilosoph

          Finally (I'm going to bed) the fact that some are now attempting to dismiss concern over climate change as rooted in "social justice identity politics" illustrates one additional reason I cringe every time I hear hasty generalizations being made about such concepts. Goodnight.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Jun 7
          Replying to @LTorcello @JeremyPhilosoph

          Yes, but we've never disagreed about the problem of making hasty generalizations about concepts.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. End of conversation

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