Yes, but we don't know what it is yet. We will probably end up with a load of different figures, bimodal and scaled to do with gonads, chromosomes, genes, brains and hormones that denote femaleness & maleness and will then understand why some ppl don't feel same sex as gonads.
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Replying to @HPluckrose
Brain science will never be clear cut, so this is basically saying there will be no real definition for men and women but rather a gender spectrum based on distributions along curves. Why not just categorize by sex but support people dressing/behaving how they want anyway?
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Replying to @AsenathWaites
Or just let people decide whether to categorize by sex or by the other person's gender identity? You'd probably do the former and I the latter.
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Replying to @HPluckrose
Well this is still saying that there would be no objective, agreed-upon definition for men and women. So what use would the terms be at all? They could be discarded and only biological sex differentiated.
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Replying to @AsenathWaites
How could they? This would require expecting people who are happy to call someone the gender they feel they are because it makes them feel recognised and doesn't harm them at all, to not do that. I'd oppose this as strongly as forcing ppl to use pronouns they don't believe in.
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Replying to @HPluckrose
I guess I feel that gender as separate from biological sex is ultimately a meaningless concept except in reference to arbitrary societal norms, and that it doesn't make sense to categorize individuals based on such a concept, especially since no one conforms wholly to these norms
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Replying to @AsenathWaites
Yes, and I support your right to feel that and say so. Other people don't feel that and will continue to think in terms of gender as separate from sex and continue to be happy to identify as they wish to be identified. This is why I come down ultimately to the freedom issue.
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Replying to @HPluckrose
You mean there should be no set definition of gender and each person should define it in one's own way? I certainly support people behaving as they wish, but it seems important to me for things to be defined in concrete ways to facilitate discussion and scientific investigation.
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Replying to @AsenathWaites
It'd be lovely if everyone agreed about this. They don't tho.
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Replying to @HPluckrose
But you see a person's gender as separate from their sex? I would like to understand this concept but when I try to follow the logic of it I just hit a tangle of paradoxes. It doesn't seem like individual gender identity in this sense can actually be defined.
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Yes. I do. I understand what is meant by 'a very masculine man' or 'a feminine woman' or 'an effeminate man' or 'a mannish woman.' But, seriously, it doesn't matter if you don't. I just don't care enough to try to convince you. I'd only hope you'd let other people think so.
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Replying to @HPluckrose
That's disappointing that you don't want to help me understand that viewpoint but thanks for your time. Maybe at some point someone can explain it to me. Obviously I know what is meant by those terms as well but I don't see how that supports independent sex and gender identity.
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