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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 31

    Helen Pluckrose Retweeted Matt Fernandez

    But defenders of freedom of speech aren't suggesting ppl should have it at work. There, you need to talk & think about the stuff you're getting paid to talk & think about. On your own time, shld be able to express any ideas w/out punishment (NB: 'Go fuck yourself' isn't an idea)https://twitter.com/FattMernandez/status/1001551247042842624 …

    Helen Pluckrose added,

    Matt FernandezVerified account @FattMernandez
    Freedom of speech isn't freedom from repercussions. That's why everyone who works retail doesn't tell you to go fuck yourself.
    Show this thread
    4:01 PM - 31 May 2018
    • 8 Retweets
    • 55 Likes
    • (((ɹoqǝɹʇs ɹ ɔ))) 🎃🕷🕸Ian Prescott®🕸🕷🎃 Geoffrey Miller Brendon J. Brewer Regina🎃 David Clifford Director Arketer, Proud Wakandan Rick Kevin Monaghan
    6 replies 8 retweets 55 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Luciferion  😈‏ @calciferion May 31
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        It also equally applies to the NFL ban on people kneeling during the national anthem. You can perfectly well accept that non-stop actors may legally inflict consiquences on you for certain speech, and say that that is a bad thing.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 31
        Replying to @calciferion

        That raises a different issue of whether employers should expect employees to comply with nationalistic or religious observances at work.

        3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Luciferion  😈‏ @calciferion May 31
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Interesting point, I hadn't considered that aspect.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Luciferion  😈‏ @calciferion May 31
        Replying to @calciferion @HPluckrose

        In America I presume they can? I wonder what the rules on that are here?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 31
        Replying to @calciferion

        I'm not sure. I'm against banning things but I think, ethically, if an organisation wanted to make this part of its day, there should be an opt out

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. 1 more reply
      1. New conversation
      2. Iona Italia‏ @IonaItalia May 31

        Maybe not in US law. But morally yes, it should be. Do you want your employer policing your every thought and conversation? REALLY?

        2 replies 1 retweet 1 like
      3. Tweet unavailable
      4. Iona Italia‏ @IonaItalia May 31

        I may not want that but it's not slavery. I don't own them.

        3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. Helen Wilson‏ @premodernism May 31
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        That argument is basically meaningless. It could be used to justify all sorts of crazy ass shit.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. New conversation
      2. Aaron Stewart‏ @agoonforhire May 31
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Punishment comes in many forms. An eyeroll is punishment. A verbal rebuke is punishment. Being fired is punishment. Being jailed is punishment. It's not that speech should ever be immune to punishment, the challenge is knowing which punishment is appropriate for which situation.

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Aaron Stewart‏ @agoonforhire May 31
        Replying to @agoonforhire @HPluckrose

        Both free speech AND punishment are necessary - in all contexts where speech might occur. Without punishment (including an eyeroll), we may have no way of knowing when we're stumbling over social boundaries. Without some protection, it's too risky to tread near those boundaries.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Aaron Stewart‏ @agoonforhire May 31
        Replying to @agoonforhire @HPluckrose

        And the secret is that nobody knows where the balance should lie. We are all collectively engaged in a massive balancing act that plays out over time -- when each of us notices things tilting too far in one direction or the other, we nudge it to restore balance.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Aaron Stewart‏ @agoonforhire May 31
        Replying to @agoonforhire @HPluckrose

        We used to play this game as individuals. We'd all react at different times in with a different degree of urgency. It meant that the balance shifted slowly, but usually didn't go too far one way or the other, at least in recent decades.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Aaron Stewart‏ @agoonforhire May 31
        Replying to @agoonforhire @HPluckrose

        Then came social media, which allows coordination on a massive scale. Social reinforcement drives people to shove instead of nudge. The synchronization multiplies the effect tremendously. At any time overreach is possible and without a moment's notice. We live in unstable times.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Aaron Stewart‏ @agoonforhire May 31
        Replying to @agoonforhire @HPluckrose

        </dramatic>

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. End of conversation
      1. Ashwynn‏ @AswynnNew May 31
        Replying to @HPluckrose

        Defenders of the free speech usually understand it. It's the rest that need it explained.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. Tomasz Gil‏ @venedio May 31
        Replying to @HPluckrose @IonaItalia

        Perfect expression of Deleuzian idea that capitalism requires schizophrenia.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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