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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Erin Hengel‏ @erinhengel May 28
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      The things that come after gender *are* relevant. But they aren't necessarily independent. The choices you make depend on your experience. So if your experience is shaped by discrimination, your "choices" will be, too.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    2. Erin Hengel‏ @erinhengel May 28
      Replying to @erinhengel @HPluckrose

      But I fully agree with you. The existence of a gender wage gap is insufficient evidence of discrimination just like the non-existence of a gender wage gap is insufficient evidence of no discrimination.

      2 replies 1 retweet 11 likes
    3. Matt Darling  🌐‏ @besttrousers May 28
      Replying to @erinhengel @HPluckrose

      Matt Darling  🌐 Retweeted

      Erin, you'd disagree with this claim, right? https://twitter.com/HPluckrose/status/1000916831987814400?s=19 …

      Matt Darling  🌐 added,

      This Tweet is unavailable.
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Erin Hengel‏ @erinhengel May 28
      Replying to @besttrousers @HPluckrose

      Yes, totally.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Joshua Lord‏ @joshualord2700 May 28
      Replying to @erinhengel @besttrousers @HPluckrose

      There's a lot in there. With which specific claims do you disagree? I'm trying to better educate myself on this topic. I thought it was true, at least, that when the variables Helen mentions are controlled for the gap markedly shrinks.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Matt Darling  🌐‏ @besttrousers May 28
      Replying to @joshualord2700 @erinhengel @HPluckrose

      That is true, but it can't be used to claim an absence of discrimination. Women will make choices about which careers to pursue on the basis of expected income so you'd expect them to be less likely to pursue careers where discrimination is an issue.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Matt Darling  🌐‏ @besttrousers May 28
      Replying to @besttrousers @joshualord2700 and

      Or - if discrimination is common - they may be less likely to pursue any human capital.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Matt Darling  🌐‏ @besttrousers May 28
      Replying to @besttrousers @joshualord2700 and

      Including statistical controls for occupation is effectively assuming that women do not have agency in the choices that they make; that they do not choose different careers in response to discrimination.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Joshua Lord‏ @joshualord2700 May 28
      Replying to @besttrousers @erinhengel @HPluckrose

      Surely that depends on the question you're trying to answer? If you're interested in whether an earnings gap is driven by wage discrimination or something else, controlling for occupation is essential.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 28
      Replying to @joshualord2700 @besttrousers @erinhengel

      He's trying to say that women with agency would choose not to work somewhere where discrimination is claimed to exist. But we have to balance this claim against the reality that women have made great headway into professions which focus on people rather than things.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 28
      Replying to @HPluckrose @joshualord2700 and

      The vicious circle comes into play here. Women don't enter engineering and tech in as great numbers as they enter medicine and education. Discrimination is posited to be the cause. Then it claimed that women don't enter those areas because they hear it discriminates against them

      4:07 AM - 28 May 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 28
          Replying to @HPluckrose @joshualord2700 and

          Of course, women can use their agency to enter professions where discrimination is said to be rife or not to enter them. Given that nearly all prestigious occupations were male dominated at one time, it seems likely that they did the former but for people-orientated jobs.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 28
          Replying to @HPluckrose @joshualord2700 and

          While discrimination could certainly still be a factor in the areas in which they are not well represented, the fact that it has divided this way does tend to suggest that women are using their own agency to pursue their own interests which have been measured & replicated well.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation

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