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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 27
      Replying to @RhettRothberg @RichardDawkins

      This is the vital difference. We can be deeply moved by art in the form of poetry or epic narratives w/out claiming them to be true. Scientists have no lesser an appreciation for these than anyone else. Blurring the distinction between 'meaningful' & 'true' is a problem.

      5 replies 1 retweet 38 likes
    2. Stephen Rae‏ @StephenRae12 May 27
      Replying to @HPluckrose @RhettRothberg @RichardDawkins

      I love you all BUT- can I make a musical analogy? (I’m a composer). An analysis of say Beethoven 5 can only tell u so much. Music creates “meaning” in ways we can not decipher empirically. There really are more things in heaven and earth that can be dreamt of in your philosophy!

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 27
      Replying to @StephenRae12 @RhettRothberg @RichardDawkins

      Nobody denies this tho. RD wrote a whole book about it. See Unweaving the Rainbow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unweaving_the_Rainbow …

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Stephen Rae‏ @StephenRae12 May 28
      Replying to @HPluckrose @RhettRothberg @RichardDawkins

      I will. Thanks. And I hope I find out why RD is so happy to define any “truths” from myths (or any other kind of non scientific approach) as “nonsense”? Cos it kind of belittles what I, or any other creative person.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 28
      Replying to @StephenRae12 @RhettRothberg @RichardDawkins

      Because he's an empirical scientist. It doesn't belittle art to say it isn't true. We don't love Hamlet for its truth value but for the beauty of its language and the complexity of its characters. It wouldn't have that if it were a true rendition of events.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Stephen Rae‏ @StephenRae12 May 28
      Replying to @HPluckrose @RhettRothberg @RichardDawkins

      I love Hamlet for its truth value!

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 28
      Replying to @StephenRae12 @RhettRothberg @RichardDawkins

      Hamlet is not true. It's a story. If it were to be a true account, it would be a report of some monarch who was mentally disabled and look like a police report. He'd be much less interesting and definitely not speak in beautifully crafted iambic pentameter.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 28
      Replying to @HPluckrose @StephenRae12 and

      You love Hamlet for its beauty and meaning. This is different to truth. It is so easy to say 'This is a beautifully moving play about something which didn't happen.' Don't have to claim it to be a true story.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Stephen Rae‏ @StephenRae12 May 28
      Replying to @HPluckrose @RhettRothberg @RichardDawkins

      Let’s jump off Hamlet (cos it’s a “narrative”) and move back to Beethoven/Coltrane/ insert favourite composer. What’s your argument here? Is music just melody, rhythm and harmony? Do I love it for its beauty and meaning? Does it therefore contain no “truths’?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Stephen Rae‏ @StephenRae12 May 28
      Replying to @StephenRae12 @HPluckrose and

      Please answer Helen if u can. It bugs the shit out of me. And I’m also serious about the question I raised earlier. As an atheist, who believes that there is Truth in Art as well as in Science, does that, by definition, make me a Post Modernist?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 28
      Replying to @StephenRae12 @RhettRothberg @RichardDawkins

      No. This belief is also found in other forms of philosophy, theology & metaphysics particularly but a failure to distinguish was is from what feels meaningful is actually our default position. Going on evidence & reason is counterintuitive.

      2:27 AM - 28 May 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 28
          Replying to @StephenRae12 @RhettRothberg @RichardDawkins

          The essay of mine that I linked cites many sources that it is counterintuitive. The Enlightenment is when it became the norm to expect evidence and reasoned argument for truth claims. Before that, truth was understood to come largely from revelation.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Stephen Rae‏ @StephenRae12 May 28
          Replying to @HPluckrose @RhettRothberg @RichardDawkins

          Yep. Read that thanks. Honestly I think the issue is being dodged. Do you really think all our great composers post Enlightment (let’s go from Mozart to present day) were communicating only pleasure and meaning and not Truth?

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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