eg, I don't see any evidence that the lack of women in engineering is caused by discrimination, when in fact, very few women major in it or even take Engi 101 courses. That speaks to me of relative lack of interest, whether cultural or hard-wired or some combination.
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Replying to @iamcuriousblue @JamesHeartfield and
And I see very few people (possibly not any!) arguing that the lack of women in that particular field is caused by hiring discrimination specifically, as opposed to general hostility to women or other factors.
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Replying to @cjbanning @iamcuriousblue and
That’s even less empirical. We can prove/disprove discrimation with gender blind testing. “General hostility” though..
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Replying to @kareem_sabri @iamcuriousblue and
"Harder to measure" and "less empirical" aren't really the same thing.
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Replying to @cjbanning @iamcuriousblue and
No, they’re not. Are you aware of any measurements of this general hostility?
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Replying to @kareem_sabri @iamcuriousblue and
I'm not disagreeing that it might be difficult to measure.
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Replying to @cjbanning @iamcuriousblue and
It seems dubious to posit "general hostility" as a causal factor for lack of women in engineering without being able to at least verify it exists. Women are quite well represented in certain departments in tech (HR for example).
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Replying to @kareem_sabri @cjbanning and
Well, quite. There was hostility to women entering all kinds of professions and yet they quickly came to dominate many of the fields which require an interest in people and communication and made much lesser inroads into those which require interest in things and systemising.
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Replying to @HPluckrose @kareem_sabri and
Given that this is consistent with differences observed all over the world, in babies too young to have been socialised out of any interests, in other apes, to manifest far less in lesbian & gay people and to be experienced as a change by trans people taking hormones...
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Replying to @HPluckrose @kareem_sabri and
How many of these observations have been empirical and quantifiable, though? I mean, I'm assuming the ones with apes were, but with humans? It's important to separate stereotypes from actual empirical data.
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Well, I'm not talking about anything that hasn't been. See the Norwegian Gender Paradox for a good overview. Includes the pan-cultural data and baby studies. There's much more empirical evidence of difference than for this vaguely suggested 'cultural conditioning.'
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