And if the activists causation model is wrong? If they're accusing entire fields of harassment and overt discrimination when there are other explanations for unequal outcomes, that doesn't seem very productive to me.
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Replying to @iamcuriousblue @cjbanning and
eg, I don't see any evidence that the lack of women in engineering is caused by discrimination, when in fact, very few women major in it or even take Engi 101 courses. That speaks to me of relative lack of interest, whether cultural or hard-wired or some combination.
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Replying to @iamcuriousblue @JamesHeartfield and
And I see very few people (possibly not any!) arguing that the lack of women in that particular field is caused by hiring discrimination specifically, as opposed to general hostility to women or other factors.
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Replying to @cjbanning @iamcuriousblue and
That’s even less empirical. We can prove/disprove discrimation with gender blind testing. “General hostility” though..
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Replying to @kareem_sabri @iamcuriousblue and
"Harder to measure" and "less empirical" aren't really the same thing.
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Replying to @cjbanning @iamcuriousblue and
No, they’re not. Are you aware of any measurements of this general hostility?
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Replying to @kareem_sabri @iamcuriousblue and
I'm not disagreeing that it might be difficult to measure.
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Replying to @cjbanning @iamcuriousblue and
It seems dubious to posit "general hostility" as a causal factor for lack of women in engineering without being able to at least verify it exists. Women are quite well represented in certain departments in tech (HR for example).
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Replying to @kareem_sabri @cjbanning and
Well, quite. There was hostility to women entering all kinds of professions and yet they quickly came to dominate many of the fields which require an interest in people and communication and made much lesser inroads into those which require interest in things and systemising.
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Replying to @HPluckrose @kareem_sabri and
And those trends ought to be examined and studied, by all means.
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Yes, they should. This blank slate thing has been the orthodoxy for a good half a century now. It's time for it to be challenged.
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Replying to @HPluckrose @kareem_sabri and
The only thing I'm convinced of is that people on all sides of the debate will be surprised (and probably displeased) by the results of such investigation.
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