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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 27
      Replying to @gztstatistics @kareem_sabri and

      Adding 'uh' to the front of claims doesn't make them stronger. If you just mean it is established that women earn less than men, it is. If you mean it is established that this is caused by paying women less than men for the same job or by cultural conditioning, it is not.

      1 reply 1 retweet 34 likes
    2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 27
      Replying to @HPluckrose @gztstatistics and

      Time and time again, it is shown that the gap all but disappears when hours worked, roles worked and time out are taken into account. Time and time again, it is shown that men & women choose differently and that this gap increases where women have most freedom to choose.

      2 replies 1 retweet 24 likes
    3. gz (not a doctor) thompson‏ @gztstatistics May 27
      Replying to @HPluckrose @kareem_sabri and

      Ah, so it sounds like you haven't read the economics papers. The simple insight you're missing is that those choices are after gender on the causal pathway, so you can't include them as controls to get your estimates. There still is a gap after you account for them, by the way.

      7 replies 3 retweets 23 likes
    4. JamesHeartfield‏ @JamesHeartfield May 27
      Replying to @gztstatistics @HPluckrose and

      It’s not a settled issue on which all economists agree.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Cole J. Banning‏ @cjbanning May 27
      Replying to @JamesHeartfield @gztstatistics and

      Well, it doesn't make much sense to wait until all the economists agree, and only then work for pay equality. In the meantime, we should support both the economists AND the activists in their work. Both are vital and important.

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Galway Curiousblue‏ @iamcuriousblue May 27
      Replying to @cjbanning @JamesHeartfield and

      And if the activists causation model is wrong? If they're accusing entire fields of harassment and overt discrimination when there are other explanations for unequal outcomes, that doesn't seem very productive to me.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    7. Galway Curiousblue‏ @iamcuriousblue May 27
      Replying to @iamcuriousblue @cjbanning and

      eg, I don't see any evidence that the lack of women in engineering is caused by discrimination, when in fact, very few women major in it or even take Engi 101 courses. That speaks to me of relative lack of interest, whether cultural or hard-wired or some combination.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    8. Cole J. Banning‏ @cjbanning May 27
      Replying to @iamcuriousblue @JamesHeartfield and

      And I see very few people (possibly not any!) arguing that the lack of women in that particular field is caused by hiring discrimination specifically, as opposed to general hostility to women or other factors.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Kareem Sabri‏ @kareem_sabri May 27
      Replying to @cjbanning @iamcuriousblue and

      That’s even less empirical. We can prove/disprove discrimation with gender blind testing. “General hostility” though..

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Cole J. Banning‏ @cjbanning May 27
      Replying to @kareem_sabri @iamcuriousblue and

      "Harder to measure" and "less empirical" aren't really the same thing.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 27
      Replying to @cjbanning @kareem_sabri and

      They're not but it's very difficult to get empirical evidence of something that can't be quantified.

      10:18 PM - 27 May 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Cole J. Banning‏ @cjbanning May 27
          Replying to @HPluckrose @kareem_sabri and

          Again, "difficult to quantify" and "can't be quantified": still not the same thing.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 27
          Replying to @cjbanning @kareem_sabri and

          I was responding to 'less empirical' and pointing that we do end up having less empirical evidence of things that are harder to quantify than things that are easy to quantify. Measuring people's attitudes as hostile will always be largely subjective.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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