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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 27

      Helen Pluckrose Retweeted

      I don't think so. It can be true that some things are found meaningful, obv. But those things may or may not be based in truth. There are right & wrong answers to things. A truth claim is true, false, partially true or unknown. https://twitter.com/ComplaintStick/status/1000871751218221056 …

      Helen Pluckrose added,

      This Tweet is unavailable.
      3 replies 0 retweets 15 likes
    2. Complaint Stick‏ @ComplaintStick May 27
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      The question is whether you can define "meaningful" in a way that excludes any relation to the true.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Complaint Stick‏ @ComplaintStick May 27
      Replying to @ComplaintStick @HPluckrose

      If we say that myths or narratives are meaningful, what do we mean by that? We mean that they provide knowledge about things that matter, like how to live or make decisions. That's not scientific knowledge, but knowledge of whatever kind still involves questions of what is true.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 27
      Replying to @ComplaintStick

      This could be subjective perceptions. 'I should live like this.' A matter of individual taste. Or an objective claim, 'This way of making decisions is best' which can be measured if particular desired outcomes specified or argued for using reason & evidence.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Complaint Stick‏ @ComplaintStick May 27
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Questions of how to live, and questions of taste, are not just subjective. Opposing the subjective and the objective is a philosophical mistake. Myths and narratives are meaningful precisely because they involve questions that exceed subjectivity.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 27
      Replying to @ComplaintStick

      That's why I said it could be both. Where the claim is objective, it can be measured. Where it is subjective, it can't. "How should I live' can have a subjective element - I should be a writer - and an objective claim - by following the doctrines of the Catholic church.

      4:31 PM - 27 May 2018
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 27
          Replying to @HPluckrose @ComplaintStick

          Well, no. That was a bad example too. It depends what you're measuring against. The subjective would be the individual finding their lives enriched or not by either of those things. The objective could look at earning money, impact on human rights issues etc.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Complaint Stick‏ @ComplaintStick May 27
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          How should I live in this tribe? Should I make or use arrows? If so, how? Myths are relevant precisely because they are ways of knowing answers to such questions. In that sense, the myth IS evidence, and the knowledge provided is real, that is, true. But it's not scientific.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 27
          Replying to @ComplaintStick

          If it provides evidence of how to make arrows and whether this is a good idea - eg like gun stats showing you're four times more likely to be killed by one if you own one - and what ways of living in tribes work best, it is scientific. If it doesn't, it isn't.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Complaint Stick‏ @ComplaintStick May 27
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Then your definition of "scientific" is something that includes knowledge that exists prior to the invention of science, doesn't it?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 27
          Replying to @ComplaintStick

          Is there a prior to the invention of science? Humans have been testing things and using the evidence provided for as long as we existed. 'Scire' - to know as a fact. However, we can also apply science to very old data. Not sure what the relevance of this tweet is.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 27
          Replying to @HPluckrose @ComplaintStick

          It doesn't matter much whether there was a word for making a decision based on evidence - I won't eat that because it makes people sick - or based on myth - I won't eat that because God says it is unclean, truth claims are involved. The former cld be true. The latter unlikely.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Complaint Stick‏ @ComplaintStick May 27
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          OK so there's a myth one of whose lessons is: don't eat this thing because you will become sick. Is that myth telling you something meaningful or something true?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 27
          Replying to @ComplaintStick

          We could not know if it was true without testing it. For the Hare Krishnas it is onions and garlic. For the ancient Hebrews, it was pork & shellfish. The former seems groundless. The latter can now be understood in relation to food poisoning & dealt with via refrigeration.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 27
          Replying to @HPluckrose @ComplaintStick

          People may or may not find dietary restrictions meaningful and this could relate to where they fall on the moral foundations - if they have strong sanctity/degradation intuitions, they could be more inclined to favor these rules regardless of evidence.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. End of conversation

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