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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 25

      Helen Pluckrose Retweeted

      No. Cilantro either smells like soap to you or it doesn't. This is objectively true or false even tho it applies to a subject - you. Does Cilantro objectively smell like soap? No. https://twitter.com/unigolyn/status/1000003396106162176 …

      Helen Pluckrose added,

      This Tweet is unavailable.
      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    2. Sam  🇪🇪‏ @clifford_banes May 25
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      I said my dislike of it is subjective. There are objective reasons relating to my sense organs that contribute to this, but I don't think "your subjective opinion objectively exists" is a refutation of subjective truths.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 25
      Replying to @clifford_banes

      Helen Pluckrose Retweeted Michael N

      https://twitter.com/MichaelN1756/status/1000005319727071232 … There are no subjective truths. Things are either true or they are not. They are not true for you but untrue for me except on the level of us being different subjects. 'I am a man' is true for you and 'I am a woman' is true for me.

      Helen Pluckrose added,

      Michael N @MichaelN1756
      Replying to @HPluckrose
      Similarly, the term “subjective truth” is NOT usually used to describe the truths of subjective states (eg, “I am truly angry/sad/hearing yanny”), but the truth of factual beliefs based on subjective considerations (eg, “I don’t believe in evolution because it feels wrong.”)
      7:44 AM - 25 May 2018
      • 3 Likes
      • Sceptical Canuck Citizen K Michael N
      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Michael N‏ @MichaelN1756 May 25
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Language here fails us because it is ambiguous. As noted, the phrase “subjective truth” is susceptible to double meaning. The problem is, the meaning most people use (“true because I think it” as opposed to “true state of mind”) is, as you point out, utter nonsense.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Sam  🇪🇪‏ @clifford_banes May 25
          Replying to @MichaelN1756 @HPluckrose

          So to go back to my example, cilantro is objectively a plant but subjectively delicious. It can not be subjectively a planet.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 25
          Replying to @clifford_banes @MichaelN1756

          Yes, subjectivity exists. You don't think people who are criticising subjective truth are criticising subjective experiences which are truly experienced?

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Sam  🇪🇪‏ @clifford_banes May 25
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          That's just tautological. It is impossible to objectively prove that I don't like cilantro. Yet I assure you it is true. Hence it's a subjective truth. Obviously subjectivity does not apply to objective facts like evolution.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Itsukushimi  🍥‏ @Itsukushimi777 May 25
          Replying to @clifford_banes @HPluckrose

          Yikes, that's not what subjective means at all. If it were, parts of evolution would be subjective because we can't conclusively prove that they happened.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Sam  🇪🇪‏ @clifford_banes May 26
          Replying to @Itsukushimi777 @HPluckrose

          At no point did I say "subjective means unprovable".

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Itsukushimi  🍥‏ @Itsukushimi777 May 26
          Replying to @clifford_banes @HPluckrose

          Well, you certainly implied it with your cilantro example. If that wasn't what you were trying to convey there, then I don't know what was the point of that analogy.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Sam  🇪🇪‏ @clifford_banes May 26
          Replying to @Itsukushimi777 @HPluckrose

          The point was that while there are objectively physiological (genetic) reasons you can point to about how I smell cilantro differently, my dislike of it is entirely subjective yet still true.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 26
          Replying to @clifford_banes @Itsukushimi777

          I'm muting this conversation now. It has been explained to you many times that the existence of subjective experience is not denied or criticised by anyone. That isn't what 'subjective truth' means.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. End of conversation

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