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GidMK's profile
Health Nerd
Health Nerd
Health Nerd
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@GidMK

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Health NerdVerified account

@GidMK

Epidemiologist. Writer (Guardian, Observer etc). "Well known research trouble-maker". PhDing at @UoW Host of @senscipod Email gidmk.healthnerd@gmail.com he/him

Sydney, New South Wales
theguardian.com/profile/gideon…
Joined November 2015

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    1. Ali Torkamani‏ @ATorkamani 13 Mar 2019
      Replying to @ATorkamani @cecilejanssens and

      I think we are more or less in agreement on the limitations of the score. But not in agreement on what that means for access to the score. I would, in general, favor freedom of access information of any sort - not only genetic info - if it is desired.

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Cecile Janssens‏ @cecilejanssens 13 Mar 2019
      Replying to @ATorkamani @statsepi @dahinds

      Based on what you have written about PRS, I don't think we agree on the limitations. I am also pro free market, pro access to information, etc, etc, but also pro quality standards, not only for the genotyping (which is peanuts) but for the modeling and assessment.

      0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. This Tweet is unavailable.
    4. Cecile Janssens‏ @cecilejanssens 13 Mar 2019
      Replying to @ATorkamani @statsepi @dahinds

      I am not talking about utility, but if I had: Assuming that people truly understand what the test can tell them (is a high bar), then: - this T2D PRS is unlikely useful for anyone - this T2D PRS is not useful for indivs that **DON'T** resemble 23andme customer base

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Ali Torkamani‏ @ATorkamani 13 Mar 2019
      Replying to @cecilejanssens @statsepi @dahinds

      (Repost) Let me attempt to restate your stance then on this particular score. The T2D PRS is not useful if you are aware that you have high environmental risk. The T2D PRS is probably not useful for individuals that don't resemble the majority of the 23andMe userbase.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Ali Torkamani‏ @ATorkamani 13 Mar 2019
      Replying to @ATorkamani @cecilejanssens and

      Well - I guess we disagree on "unlikely useful for ***anyone***" If you are healthy, (near)European and you fall in the highest risk tier - 2X increase risk even with the relatively low incidence in healthy individuals is meaningful and worth investigating.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Health Nerd‏Verified account @GidMK 13 Mar 2019
      Replying to @ATorkamani @cecilejanssens and

      So, presumably, the test should only ever be sold and marketed to people who meet those fairly exacting criteria, if at all?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Ali Torkamani‏ @ATorkamani 13 Mar 2019
      Replying to @GidMK @cecilejanssens and

      No - that is the group that the score is *most* useful for. It's a personal value judgement for the individual. Although yes - I would say on the marketing side it should be clear how well the test would perform across various groups - which is exactly what was done.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Health Nerd‏Verified account @GidMK 13 Mar 2019
      Replying to @ATorkamani @cecilejanssens and

      But what you're saying is that in the best case scenario the test - for people who are low on every other risk, resemble 23andMe userbase, and score in the highest risk tier - will inform people of a risk increase of, what, about 0.05%? Roughly?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Ali Torkamani‏ @ATorkamani 13 Mar 2019
      Replying to @GidMK @cecilejanssens and

      According to the white paper its >2X increase in lifetime risk in the top 5%. Risk increase depends on how you define "healthy." But the lifetime risk for BMI (18-25) is >10%. Seems like a fine definition for how most people perceive their health. 10% -> 20% (roughly)

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Health Nerd‏Verified account @GidMK 13 Mar 2019
      Replying to @ATorkamani @cecilejanssens and

      But lifetime risk is usually pretty useless to the individual. If you look at the modelling curve in the white paper, the increased 5-year risk looks to be almost 0 and 20-year increase is about 0.5%

      4:17 PM - 13 Mar 2019
      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Health Nerd‏Verified account @GidMK 13 Mar 2019
          Replying to @GidMK @ATorkamani and

          *for a healthy 20yo taking the test

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Ali Torkamani‏ @ATorkamani 13 Mar 2019
          Replying to @GidMK @cecilejanssens and

          Depends on how people define "healthy." In my experience - a self perception of health lines up nowhere near our quantitative standards of health. Anyway, I need to sign off for conference planning - but I enjoyed the back and forth. Despite disagreements - I enjoyed the banter

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Show replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Cecile Janssens‏ @cecilejanssens 13 Mar 2019
          Replying to @GidMK @ATorkamani and

          agree. and let's not forget .... 23andme didn't study lifetime risk ...

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Health Nerd‏Verified account @GidMK 13 Mar 2019
          Replying to @cecilejanssens @ATorkamani and

          They did some modelling based on OR and some comparisons with another model built on real data, but that's certainly not the same as building their own model based on lifetime assessments or even specific diagnoses rather than self-report

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Ali Torkamani‏ @ATorkamani 13 Mar 2019
          Replying to @GidMK @cecilejanssens and

          Sure. For T2D I'd think lifetime risk is more relevant vs an acute disease like an adverse coronary event where short-term risk projections are more relevant. And of course it depends on your age as well. But yes - most people have more important risk factors to worry about.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Health Nerd‏Verified account @GidMK 13 Mar 2019
          Replying to @ATorkamani @cecilejanssens and

          This is where I struggle to see any benefit in these tests. Hundreds of dollars to be told something that you are already doing everything to prevent (this is the lowest risk group we're talking about, after all)...seems like a waste of money to me

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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